OCJ - FDTL Template === [00:00:00] So my uncle contacted some of his retired buddies off the police force, and, uh, they knew enough people and this and that, that they got the OnStar turned on in my truck. And that's how they found me through the GPS. Yeah, because I had shut my phone off. I thought, there's no way I'm doing everything I can. I forgot that the truck has a GPS in it. Yeah. And that's how he found me that night or that morning. So, yeah, spent a week ICU intensive care. Got into a room, um, still really [00:00:30] angry, still really suicidal into the psych ward for a bit. And everything that I thought, everything that kept me from reaching out for help was happening. Now, [00:00:40] Voice Over: is there anyone out there from Darkness to Life contains the real stories of individuals who found their way out of the darkness caused by mental health challenges and substance abuse. If these stories resonate with you and you or someone you love, need help, and don't know where to turn, our collective journey is here for you. Please reach out when you're [00:01:00] ready to our collective journey.ca or on Facebook at our collective journey. [00:01:05] Ryan: Hey, welcome back to the Plugged in Media Network Studio for another episode of From Darkness to Life. It's been a while since, uh, since we've sat in here and taken to the airwaves with our show. I want to thank everyone who's stuck it out and, uh, hung on while we sorted things out. Um, it's exciting to be back in here and we have a twist today where the guest is actually myself. And, [00:01:30] uh, I'd like to welcome back from anybody who's familiar with the early days of o CJ and the from Darkness to Life podcast. Poncho is joining me in studio today. [00:01:38] Poncho: Yeah. It's, uh, with, thank you for having me here. Thank you for, uh, allowing me to, uh, be interviewing you over all of the, uh, darkness to light podcasts over the years you've been sitting in the hot seat and, um, speaking and just talking about shared life experience and of which you continue to live. And I think there is a [00:02:00] reason why, um, I guess you're in the hot seat and I'm gonna be asking the question because you have moved on from, uh, from OCJ, although you were, you're still, uh, an instructor at medicine at college these days. Correct? In the, uh, addiction counseling crisis service. Although, uh, I'm not supposed to call you professor. [00:02:16] Ryan: No, no. Please do not address me as professor. I've told a few of the students the same thing. Um, yeah, so that's the twist that I'm, I was referring to when we started this show was, uh, [00:02:27] Poncho: because your, your story has never been told. [00:02:28] Ryan: It's, it's never, not [00:02:30] in its entirety and not, uh. Not in a long time. I haven't spoke about my entire story. I used to speak about it all the time, but now it's, you know, it's kind of, that piece has moved, I've moved on past that piece, but it still holds a lot of value for a lot of people here. Well, [00:02:43] Poncho: well, for and, and for yourself as well. I mean, if you hadn't lived the life that you've lived, you wouldn't be where you are today. Mm-hmm. And that of, uh, teaching in medicine at college. Now, previous to that, you also were a, uh, a crisis instructor with a Canadian Mental Health Association. And in between there you were [00:03:00] the founder, one of the founders of our collective journey, which, uh, came about in 2020 Right. As the world was falling apart. Mm-hmm. Uh, in COVID. And I, I think more than ever, that's when our collective journey, uh, needed to happen. And, uh, you were a force of forces bringing together all kinds of people and all kinds of, uh, sources and resources to allow people to find the needs to get better. Mm-hmm. And so after years of. Having you ask questions and [00:03:30] having you talk to others of sharing their stories. Uh, I'm, uh, incredibly honored to be here in, uh, the seat to get your story mm-hmm. Today. So, and, and I love that. Um. It's a, uh, a passing of, of the torch. Absolutely. If you will. Yeah. Uh, you've done incredible things, uh, with your life. Thank you. How, how long have you been with, uh, medicine at college? [00:03:52] Ryan: Uh, I actually since, well, since last year, in October, I started to, um, work as the program developer for the new addictions counseling [00:04:00] diploma program. [00:04:00] Poncho: Yeah. [00:04:01] Ryan: And, uh, transitioned full time in, at the end of June of this summer. [00:04:05] Poncho: How did that happen? How did that come to be Medicine? Do college approached you? [00:04:08] Ryan: Uh, actually, no. I threw my hat in the ring. Okay. When, when the development of the program was getting close to the conclusion, then it was starting to, they were starting to look for, uh, program coordinator, program instructors, and I thought it took a long time to wrap my brain around it. Lots of conversation with my wife, with current directors at OCJ, and, and I just thought it was a natural transition for me to move on at this time. [00:04:30] It was a great opportunity to move into the college, into academic world and, and start, you know, Pancho, one of the things I talked about with my wife was. I spent the last 10 years trying to make a difference, uh, personally on the front lines, working one-on-one with people, right? And, and that gets overwhelming. Anyone who's out there doing frontline work can, can understand how overwhelming that gets when you don't, you know, have the level of success that, um, I personally have acquired in, in recovery. You don't see that every day on the front lines. [00:05:00] It can really get heavy at times and lead to burnout. [00:05:02] Poncho: Yeah. What I was gonna say, what is the burnout factor? Like how, 'cause I, I, I really, I, I couldn't fathom, I couldn't imagine what you and the rest of the crew at OCJ would do. Reaching out, you know, to those in need. Mm-hmm. Uh, minute after minute, day after day, week after week, month, af month. I mean, you're doing incredible things, but ultimately, ultimately it's gotta catch up to a person. [00:05:22] Ryan: It does. Absolutely right. And there's, there's such value in having, um, supports and, and people to debrief with and having [00:05:30] that support network for yourself as a professional. But yeah, the burnout rate, after, you know, a decade, it, it gets to be quite heavy working in that frontline space. So. That was one of the reasons I decided with, after talking with my wife, move over to academics and start teaching another army of frontline workers. And maybe that's my place now moving forward, is putting together all these people that are going to go out and try to support people and help change lives. So [00:05:55] Poncho: taking that life, that, that shared life experience or taking that life experience and sharing it with others now. [00:05:59] Ryan: Mm-hmm. [00:06:00] Yeah. So I kind of reframed it, right? It's not, it's not any less valuable what I'm doing today. I actually see it as a little more valuable because now it's just not myself trying to make difference. It's, it's myself putting together or helping educate another 20. Future professionals that are gonna go out into this community or southern Alberta or wherever they're from and, and start to make change with that population. So, and that's why I'm looking at that now. [00:06:23] Poncho: Yeah. And I think that's a, a fantastic, for a few reasons, number one, to, to save yourself from burnout. [00:06:30] And number two, I, I mean, you know, um, United, we stand. Mm-hmm. And if, and if, uh, you're in a means to have the ability to share your knowledge and your ism and to teach those, to teach others well, then ultimately I think that's, that's the end goal of the day. Absolutely. Um, before you were at Madison at college, um, as I mentioned Yeah. Uh, founder of, uh, our collective journey. Before our collective journey, uh, you were with, um, Canadian Mental Health Association, [00:07:00] correct? Correct. What were you doing before that? Uh, before that I was actively using drugs. Okay. Alright. This is the part of the story that I want to get to. Yeah. Yeah. This, this is the story that, um. That I wanna share. So, uh, let's go back to what was your, was, what was your drug of choice? Was it one, was it all, was it whatever was thrown in front of you? Uh, for the [00:07:20] Ryan: longest time, and it was unknown to myself that alcohol was a huge problem in my life. It was just normalized everywhere I went from the time I was 15 to the time I was 40, [00:07:30] I found the, the same type of people that drank like me, whether it was in my hockey career, early on in my life, or it was in the 18 years in the oil and gas industry. I just surrounded myself with the people that drank like me and nobody really thought they had a problem. 'cause it was just what everybody [00:07:45] Poncho: did. So you mentioned from the ages of, uh, 15 to 40. Yeah. So that's a huge part of your life. Mm-hmm. That's, that's 25 years. Absolutely. 25 years of [00:07:57] Ryan: heavy drinking. Heavy drinking, yeah. Heavy drugs, lots of, uh, [00:08:00] binge drinking. Um. Like I said, normalized in all the, in all the areas that I put myself in, whether it was hockey, I found the group of guys that drank, like I did after practice on weekends, after games, uh, transitioned outta hockey at about 23 and just right into the oil and gas industry. And it was really easy to find the same group of guys that drank like me out there. [00:08:19] Poncho: Right. So from 15 to 23 it was, it was alcohol and, and as you said mm-hmm. It's normalized. I think it's a big part of our society for sure. I'm not saying it's a, [00:08:30] and that's what it is. Absolutely. [00:08:32] Ryan: You know, you know, we had sponsors that were big name, uh, alcohol vendors down. I played hockey in the states, um, Budweiser, different vendors or sponsors of our team. We won a big game on a Friday night. There was four kegs of beer at our house ready for the party. You know, spon brought to us by the sponsor type thing. Right. So I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus. Um, that was normalized in a lot of junior hockey. Yeah, for sure. Were you even 18? Uh, at that time I was 19, but I was playing in the US So you had to be 21 to drink? [00:08:59] Poncho: Yeah. [00:08:59] Ryan: [00:09:00] Three quarters of the team. I think everybody on the team at that time was under 20 years old playing junior hockey. You had to be under 20 years old. So, [00:09:06] Poncho: and it was every day, every weekend, every time you on the bus games like [00:09:12] Ryan: that, after big games, there was always a beer around. Uh, it was not frowned upon as long as we didn't have a commitment The next day, another game or something, coaching staff ownership, they were okay with us partying [00:09:23] Poncho: and, and it probably wasn't just hockey that probably carried over into your personal life, your, your social life. Absolutely. Starting at the age [00:09:30] of [00:09:30] Ryan: 15. Yeah. 15 started dabbling in with the beers and, you know, it was normalized at home too. My dad drank all the time and I had no problem as long as I wasn't smoking marijuana, I was Okay. [00:09:40] Poncho: Yeah. [00:09:40] Ryan: In, in my dad's eyes. Right. So that was something that was really ingrained in me early on. The, the normalization of alcohol. Marijuana, bad. Yeah. Alcohol. Go for it. [00:09:50] Poncho: Yeah. [00:09:50] Ryan: So, [00:09:50] Poncho: uh, but you did get into marijuana. Uh. [00:09:53] Ryan: Sporadically. It wasn't really my thing. I didn't really like that kind of, um, that peaceful, numbed down feeling. I [00:10:00] liked to get after it. Okay. I was more of a stimulant guy, which I found later on in life. So I didn't start into the drug scene until early thirties. Yeah. So alcohol was one of those things that destroyed my life, but I didn't recognize that it was destroying my life. So [00:10:14] Poncho: from, from about age of 15 to 30. So at that point, half half of your life had been spent mm-hmm. Making we'll say questionable [00:10:21] Ryan: choices. Absolutely. Uh, every weekend. Yeah. Every weekend. Right. I was either fighting, looking for a fight, hanging out with the guys [00:10:30] that liked to fight, liked to party, like to sleep around, all those things that come with heavy alcohol use. [00:10:36] Poncho: And so during this part of your life, Ryan, so you know, age 15 to 30, did you ever think that, uh, oh, this is, um, yeah, this is fine. This is normal. This is what everybody does. This is, this is how I live my life. That's, [00:10:49] Ryan: that's exactly what. My mindset was it was normal. I didn't see a problem in any of it. You know, when I got, um, into recovery, one of the biggest eye openers for me was going to my first wedding and a [00:11:00] wedding dance. And I thought, not everybody gets trashed at these things. Yeah. Like up until I got into recovery, I thought everybody at a wedding dance was completely annihilated. And then it was an eyeopener that, no, there's only a handful of people that get that intoxicated. And I was one of them usually dancing on the table. [00:11:15] Poncho: What, how old were you in your life when you realized that lesson? [00:11:17] Ryan: Oh, 40. Yeah. It wasn't until I got into recovery that I, I realized how, how crazy my ideal of what normal drinking looked like. [00:11:28] Poncho: Yeah. [00:11:28] Ryan: Yeah. Uh, [00:11:30] how much trouble the drinking? Oh, I got in a lot of trouble. Did you? I, I, I managed to avoid. Knock on wood. By the grace of God, I now, I managed to avoid any, uh, consequences from the law. You know, I got pulled over lots. I got 24 hour suspensions. I never got a DUI, which to this day, I don't know how I avoided them because there was some times where I should have had them no questions asked. But a lot of times, to be honest, it was because I was playing hockey. In the US a lot of the towns are the cities I played in. Huge fan [00:12:00] bases. Police officers, like the hockey team. Oh, you're Canadian, you play for so-and-so. What happens if I give you a DUI tonight? Oh, I'll get deported. Right? And then the two different times, once in Spokane, once in Montana, it said, or it led to, well, why don't you let my partner park your car over there? I don't wanna see it move for 24 hours and you find your way home. And I couldn't hardly walk, let alone drive. But it didn't lead to any DUIs. It just, no, no. So really no consequences. No consequences, right? And that's part of what makes people wanna [00:12:30] change eventually, is when those consequences start to get heavy enough and you have. That light bulb moment that holy smokes, I better change my life or else things are gonna get really bad. Yeah. I never faced hardly any of those early on in my life. So I just, [00:12:41] Poncho: you know, and, and, and you're talking about right now, you're playing hockey down in the states when you were 19, 19 [00:12:47] Ryan: to [00:12:47] Poncho: 24 in that age group, and that light bulb wouldn't hit. For your, another 15 years for you [00:12:52] Ryan: For sure. It was more of a, it was more like a, a bragging, right? Oh yeah. I got so bombed on Saturday. I got pulled over by the cops type thing. Right. It was, it was a [00:13:00] badge of honor to be the most intoxicated in the room. And that's the way the whole group looked at it. Right? Oh, you think you were banged up? Look at so-and-so. Right. And it was never, you think maybe you have a problem. It was never that conversation. [00:13:14] Poncho: So 19 to 24, you saw it as a badge of honor. When you look back at it now, how do you see it? [00:13:18] Ryan: Oh my gosh. It was an embarrassment and such a waste of time, money, health. Um, I, to this day, don't have a clue where my hockey career may have gone if it wasn't for alcohol. [00:13:27] Poncho: Yeah. [00:13:28] Ryan: I blamed it on everything else. I blamed it [00:13:30] on instructors at the university. I ended up playing for, I blamed it on the coach. I blamed it on all these other things. Looking back now, it was clearly alcohol was to blame [00:13:37] Poncho: it. It was. So you think it did impact? Your potential future of what could have been in hockey? A hundred percent. [00:13:43] Ryan: Yeah. And I don't know, you know, there was not, the skill level, don't get me wrong, wasn't, I wasn't going to the NHL, but I had potential to go play, uh, semi-pro somewhere, prolong my career to my late twenties or something. But no, it was drinking all the time. I was subpar in practice, hung over in practice, things like that. And it was really [00:14:00] detrimental to my career. [00:14:01] Poncho: So when you noticed that your game wasn't as strong as it used to be, did that wanna make you drink less or did that wanna make you drink more? Uh, [00:14:09] Ryan: at that time it didn't really impact. My thoughts around drinking. Like I said earlier, I was blaming everybody else, so I just quit playing hockey for the university I was at in, in, uh, North Dakota and moved home. Just thought, well, I'm taking my game back to, I'll go play somewhere else, then it's the university's fault, it's the coach's fault. They don't see my potential. I'm leaving. I didn't feel like I was valued there. [00:14:29] Poncho: You were blaming [00:14:30] everybody, but a hundred percent. But the person that was looking at the mirror at you every day? Yeah. How, how young were you at this point? [00:14:35] Ryan: Uh, that would've been 23, I believe. 23. And then decided to move back to Canada. [00:14:40] Poncho: 23. So you give up on something that you were incredibly passionate about? Yeah. So that was basically the end of my competitive hockey career. I moved back home, got a job in the oil and gas industry, started playing senior men's hockey, stuff like that. [00:14:52] Poncho: Okay. So when you say when you moved back home, you got yourself, uh, like an apartment or you, uh, moved back in with friends and family. Just moved [00:14:57] Ryan: back to Saskatchewan. Yeah. Got my place. I had a, [00:15:00] uh, girlfriend at that time. Um, we ended up moving in together. Ended up getting engaged, got married eventually, but it was transitioning right back into the oil and [00:15:07] Poncho: gas. So from hockey right into oil and gas. Yeah. Hockey takes a backseat for sure. [00:15:13] Poncho: And it's all about putting, uh, bread on the table. [00:15:16] Ryan: Yeah. [00:15:16] Poncho: And um, is the oil and gas where you became. Introduced to drugs. [00:15:24] Ryan: Yeah, it was, it was more prevalent in that scene than it was in my hockey career. Um, you [00:15:30] know, you go to work lots, you'd see a lot of people smoking marijuana, stuff like that. But that's where the introduction to hard drugs started to happen for me. Um, it wasn't like they were just introduced to me or handed to me, but you started to see them more around, uh, you know, in the bars at night after work. That was a common thing. You'd stop at the bar for a few beers on your way home from work or stop at the bar and never go home [00:15:52] Poncho: type thing. Yeah. Depending what you're into. Absolutely. And, and, and it's, and it's not like you just go to the pharmacy and you go, Hey, I would like a little bit of this and a little bit of that and a little bit of [00:16:00] this. You need to know someone. And once you know someone, you tend to fall into, um, the same kind of social situations mm-hmm. With these people, which only I think fuels. The addiction. [00:16:12] Ryan: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So it wasn't until, um, if we wanna fast forward, so I, oil and gas, I toiled around in there, worked my way up the ladder from, you know, running a shovel to running a crew truck, to running a crew, to being a, a number two on a crew. [00:16:26] Poncho: So you have responsibility, like you have, you have, you have people that you know [00:16:30] you need to look out for [00:16:30] Ryan: for sure. Yeah. And uh, I was promoted to number two, which is the second guy in command on a pipeline crew underneath the job title of the superintendent who happened to be my dad at that time. [00:16:41] Poncho: Right. [00:16:42] Ryan: So my dad and I butted heads a lot. We didn't get along a lot. I know he loved me, but he was one of those fathers that was iron fist. You're gonna do it my way. Or there's gonna be repercussions. Right. And, uh, big guy, like 6 4, 2 90. Um, a lot of temper issues. Right. Um, a lot of violence. Right. [00:17:00] That I witnessed over the years. Lots of some physical abuse, things like that. Right. And that was just normalized. I thought everybody was going through the same stuff. [00:17:07] Poncho: Right. Was was, was your father a drinker as well? Oh yeah. Okay. Because alcohol is hereditary, it does run, run in the family for [00:17:14] Ryan: sure. Definitely genetic factors in that. Absolutely. [00:17:17] Poncho: Um, and did butting heads with your father have something to do with the, with you getting involved in the drugs you think in directly, indirectly? [00:17:26] Ryan: Uh, it, it opened the door to it a lot. You know, growing up, looking [00:17:30] back now and having all the education I have, I didn't have many coping mechanisms growing up. I wasn't taught many ways to cope with stress, cope, cope with conflict, cope with anything. I usually drank. I was either angry, fighting or drinking one of the three to cope with whatever was going on. And that was my go-to all the time. I, oh man, I need a beer. I gotta settle down. I need some beers, I need some vodka, whatever it was. And uh, that's the connection my dad and I had, that we did really well together, is we'd work on the road, probably half the year, bars on weekends, bars after [00:18:00] work. And him and I drank together a lot. Right. And that was our connection piece. Once we drank together, we could communicate back and forth, but it usually ended before the evening ended because it would get aggressive eventually. [00:18:11] Poncho: Yeah. As alcohol. As alcohol does. Absolutely. Yeah. You know For [00:18:15] Ryan: sure. [00:18:16] Poncho: Um, do you get along with your father? [00:18:18] Ryan: Uh, well he, that's part of my big story, poncho is, uh, we worked together until I was 31, 2006 actually is when he had a vehicle accident on our [00:18:30] way in from work that night and rolled his truck and died. So. We had, uh, we had an argument that day. It was like mid, early, mid-October, you know, plus five out. Nobody was worried about weather. That's not snowing. It's not icy. Uh, we had an argument on the lease that afternoon. He wanted things done his way. I did it my way. I said, it doesn't matter. We're gonna get it done. Who cares how we get it done? It's proper. [00:18:52] Poncho: Yeah, [00:18:52] Ryan: wasn't done his way though. So he stormed outta there and we had a few harsh words at each other. At about two in the afternoon, he peeled out of the lease with his truck and I [00:19:00] never saw him again that day. And, uh, got to the end of the workday. About four o'clock we grabbed our beers from this little, little town bar, grabbed our beers for the ride home. I was riding by myself. He always rode by him, by his, uh, himself. And, uh, on the way back into the city, um, I. Dating myself here. We had those old truck mounted phones. So I see his number come up on the screen and I said, fuck, I'm not talking to you. Yeah. I'll deal with you tomorrow. Yeah. Ignore. [00:19:25] Poncho: And you're drinking beers meanwhile, and for sure, and again, this is just an everyday occurrence. Hell, every day [00:19:30] grab a six pack, totally hop in, hop in the vehicle. [00:19:32] Ryan: Yep. And head home. And you could have probably singled out the 25 trucks that were in our crew, probably 15 of them were doing the same thing. It was very normal to be doing that. Even though it was against policy. Yeah, [00:19:45] Poncho: yeah. [00:19:45] Ryan: But a lot of people were doing it. And um, yeah, I ignored that phone call and I got a phone call about maybe 10 minutes later from our general manager that, uh, there was an accident up ahead and I never thought anything of it. Not once did I think anything of it. And uh, [00:20:00] he said, yeah, your, your dad actually, he hit some black ice and rolled his truck and he passed away. And that's when shock took over. That's when, uh, I didn't, I didn't believe him to start with. I'm like, not a chance. He drives 500 kilometers every day for the last 20 years as if he's gonna roll his truck and die. Uh, got up there. Sure enough, his truck's across the highway backwards laying on its driver's side across through a fence and, and, you know, it's getting dark out by this time and pump the brakes while it's ier than heck. You can't see the ice. It's black ice. So I steer down into the ditch and [00:20:30] jump out and, and, uh. See him actually passed away in, in the driver's seat of his truck. Uh, he had put his head through the side window and that's what took his life. Within seconds they figure. So that's, you know, shock. Um, first thing I do is, is try to gather up all his tools. There's paperwork. Anyone who knows the superintendent's truck, because that's their office, there's papers. [00:20:50] Poncho: All it is, all it is is papers. Yeah. [00:20:51] Ryan: Papers and tools all over the ditches and blowing around and, and then I decide, well, I better go tell my mom. So I, I avoid all of the EMS and all the people that are starting [00:21:00] to show up. And how, [00:21:00] Poncho: how are you functioning at this point? [00:21:02] Ryan: Actually now, you know what, it's, it's kind of a blur. That whole evening is kind of a blur. I have pieces that I can remember, but the actual visual used to haunt me for, for the first few years that I'll never, uh, be able to unsee that sight of him in his truck. But I can't, even if I try hard today, I can't picture it. [00:21:21] Poncho: Yeah. [00:21:21] Ryan: Um, it's amazing how the. The brain works to, to keep us safe and, and block things out. Um, at that time, I, I honestly can't tell you for sure [00:21:30] what I've heard is, you know, it was like the chicken with his head cut off running around the ditch, trying to organize stuff that was meaningless at the time and just trying to direct people but not really making much sense. And [00:21:39] Poncho: yeah. [00:21:40] Ryan: And then got my truck and sped off into town to tell my mom that he had passed away and. That in itself was even another level of trauma. Experiencing my mom receiving that news from me in not a very empathetic way, just, oh, dad's dead, and, you know, stuff like that. It was a very traumatic experience. Absolutely. [00:21:57] Poncho: With a beer in your hand? [00:21:58] Voice Over: Uh, in the truck. I didn't have it [00:22:00] in my hand, but they were all still in the truck. Yeah. Drinking beer on the way in. I gotta calm down. Never once thought, you know, maybe this was, you know, turns out that wasn't the cause of his accident. He wasn't drinking and driving, but the, the ice was the cause. But never once did I think, well, maybe I shouldn't be drinking and driving right now. So even [00:22:16] Poncho: at that point, it didn't, it, it didn't occur to you, not chance. [00:22:19] Ryan: I completely got. Annihilated that night? Intoxicated. Did you? Oh, yeah. And, and through the next week. I don't really remember his funeral. Don't remember all the family coming to town. There was three or [00:22:30] 400 people at his funeral. I just remember a very full auditorium. I don't remember talking to anybody. Just drank the whole time to numb things out and, and avoid dealing with anything. So even, even now when you look back, it, it, it's hard. You just see it as one big, fuzzy picture. Yeah. Yeah. And I do, you know, there are some moments where I do remember talking to people, uh, some trusted people saying like, how are you doing? May, like, you should maybe look at getting a counselor or something. I'm like a counselor as if, right. That's what weak people would do. My dad wouldn't [00:23:00] see a counselor. Yeah. Beat it. I'm not seeing a counselor. So now they were coming to you in, in terms of, um, obviously they were concerned about you and when you say a counselor, a, a grief counselor or were they more concerned? A, a about. You, you're drinking at this point? The, the grief counselor at that point, just to deal with the passing of my dad and witnessing the, the traumatic scene that I saw and things like that. Looking back now, if I would've taken that step to a grief counselor, I'm sure they would've tried to outsource it to an addictions counselor at some point because the [00:23:30] evidence of, um, me and my drinking patterns would've came to light very, very soon. [00:23:36] Poncho: Were, were you trying to hide your, your drinking patterns at this point from no friends or family? Again, absolutely not. It was still considered just incredibly normal. Absolutely [00:23:43] Ryan: normal, yeah. Not once did anybody think maybe you should, uh, stop drinking or cut down on your drinking? I never heard that from anybody. It was very normalized in the circles I ran in. [00:23:52] Poncho: Alright. And this is about 30, you're about 30 years old. 30 31, yeah. 30, 31. [00:23:56] Ryan: Yeah. [00:23:57] Poncho: When this happens, um, are you and your [00:24:00] mom close? Mm, [00:24:01] Ryan: yeah. Yeah, we are. And, um, at that time, extremely close. Um, things, you know, we've kind of drifted apart now. I live in a different province. I, I see them every once in a while, but, um, at that time, yeah, we're extremely close. My brother was really close with my dad. He, uh, worked with my dad. Like I said, I went away to play hockey. My brother always worked with my dad from the time I can remember till the time he passed away. So it really hit my brother hard that my dad had passed away [00:24:26] Poncho: in instead of you, I'm going to assume here in [00:24:30] stereotype mm-hmm. That, that typical bullheaded male stereotype that a lot of us fall into. Absolutely. So you said, screw it. I don't need counseling. I don't want counseling. All I need is a couple of beers. Totally. And I bet you said, I'm gonna throw myself right back into work. [00:24:44] Ryan: Yeah. It, it was about, they, the company that I worked for, I won't say any names, but they gave us about seven days off. Um, decide when you want to come back, but I knew the job had to go on. Right. And my dad had passed away Who's gonna finish this job? So it was very important for me. That was. Pretty [00:25:00] much what my identity was. I was an employee at this company type thing, right? So I knew I had to go back to work. In my mind, I knew I had to go back to work. Plus it was a way to avoid all the stuff that was going on at home. At that point around my dad's death, I can go really push myself back into work and, and that's what I did about seven days after he passed away. We had the funeral and then I was back to work within the week, the following week. [00:25:21] Poncho: Now looking back, we can all go, oh, that was probably an awful idea. [00:25:24] Ryan: Awful idea. Awful idea. And. You know, fast forward three months after that [00:25:30] is when I got promoted to superintendent. So I took over the crew that he had ran. Um, so now I was in charge of, [00:25:36] Poncho: so now you have more responsibility. [00:25:38] Ryan: Right. And, and, uh, looking back now, adequately trained, not really for that. I was probably two or three years away from having that seat, but because I was the second guy in charge and they offered it to me, I'm like, oh yeah, I'm the man now I comes with a pay raise. It comes with more responsibility, all these things. Um, and it came with looking back a lot more drinking. Yeah. Yeah. I, I drank a lot then to deal with all the [00:26:00] extra stressors that were added because of that extra role. [00:26:03] Poncho: Right, and, and so now you're starting to drink for different reasons, Uhhuh. [00:26:05] Ryan: Yeah, for [00:26:06] Poncho: sure. Not, not, not to, not for fun anymore. [00:26:08] Ryan: No. No. The entertainment factor of drinking and socializing piece had kind of went out the window years before that I drank mostly for effect. Right. It wasn't, you know, I'm gonna have a couple beers. I always look at people, especially nowadays looking back, I look at people that can stop for a drink and then go home and go about their day or their business. I'm like, how do you do that? [00:26:26] Poncho: Yeah. [00:26:26] Ryan: For me, if I have one, I better have six more. 'cause one [00:26:30] doesn't mean any. I mean, as well, [00:26:31] Poncho: even, even now, you, you have that, you're like, if I have one, it would be six more. And this is why I [00:26:36] Ryan: Absolutely, yeah. It might not be today. I might be able to have one drink, but that's gonna be my green light for my crazy brain to say, well, look at last time you were able to have one. Have another one today. See how that goes. [00:26:47] Poncho: Well, and that's how addiction works, isn't it? Mm-hmm. For sure. We really, we convince ourselves that. We've got this under control. Yeah. [00:26:54] Ryan: Yeah. It's, it's one of the only diseases that tells you you don't have a disease. Yeah, yeah. Right. Believe me, trust [00:27:00] me, you got this and then suddenly you're back to, for myself, back to suicidal and homeless. And I'm like, no, I don't think I got this. [00:27:08] Poncho: Yeah. 'cause you really thought you had it. You, you had your shit together [00:27:11] Ryan: right up. Yep. Throughout the entire, right up till. The last week of being, you know, in my forties when I was actively using, I thought I didn't have a problem. I control this stuff. Yeah, right. Little did I know. [00:27:22] Poncho: Well, and it, it turns out there's very little that we can control in our, in our lives at the best of times For sure. Yeah. You know, absolutely. Let alone [00:27:30] the, the substances that we put into our body. [00:27:33] Ryan: So it was about, it was about three years after that promotion, poncho is when I got introduced to hard drugs. Uh, that was right around 33, 34 years old, somewhere in there. How, how, how was it brought, how was it [00:27:46] Poncho: brought up to you? How, how was [00:27:48] Ryan: it introduced to you? I just happened to, uh, like I said, I was playing, um, senior man's hockey and some no hit hockey in town with some of the guys from work and other guys that I know. And, uh, it just happened to go into the bathroom in a lounge one night [00:28:00] after a few beers after a game, and they were doing some cocaine in the bathroom. Right. That was the first time I had really seen guys doing it or anybody doing it. Right. Uh, I didn't do it that night, but, uh, they were okay with having it around me at that point then. 'cause I've already seen it, now. It, we don't have to hide it from him. He is not gonna tell on honest or whatever. Right. [00:28:17] Poncho: Yeah. What was your initial reaction to it? Just even seeing it being around it? Were you like, holy [00:28:22] Ryan: Uh, a little shocked. Yeah. I'm like, you guys do that stuff crazy. Right. I never would've thought about it. Um, at that time. You know, the, [00:28:30] the stereotype I had in my mind of people who use hard drugs are the homeless people downtown or, you know, the people that you see in movies. It's not your buddies that you've known for the last 10 years. Yeah. [00:28:39] Poncho: Or the, yeah. Somebody that you've known all of your life or you know, somebody that you're related to or the person who, who's been living next to you. Absolutely. For the last, you know, 12, 13, 14 years. For sure. So that's how you get, that's how you become accustomed to it, is first just seeing it. Yep. [00:28:55] Ryan: See it, seeing it around. Absolutely. And then the next time we're out drinking those guys, you know, I [00:29:00] know what they're doing in there. So I go in there and I had a bump with them in that night. Didn't really think much of it. Didn't think it wasn't one of those you hear back in the eighties, you know, if you try that once, you're gonna be hooked. Yeah. For me, no, I didn't think anything of it. Right. But then that was even more of a green light for them. I'd go over to watch Sunday afternoon football at their house, have a few beers now. There's a plate on the table with it. They're not hiding it in the bathroom and they're not hiding it in a [00:29:22] Poncho: plate of cocaine. [00:29:23] Ryan: Yeah. So it was normalized at that point, you know, is a safe place to have it out because I know about it. [00:29:30] I tried it with them, they know I'm part of now. So then it just started to progressively, um, not get worse at that time. But I used more often then. [00:29:39] Poncho: Yeah. Yeah. Thinking that always, that you always had things under control for sure. Yeah. And would you try to convince yourself going, okay, so I, I am just gonna have a bump or a snort or, or a rail and then I'm not gonna do it again for a week. Mm-hmm. And then it goes, okay, well. Just on the weekends. Oh gosh. It's like you're reading my [00:30:00] playbook. Right. And then it's got, okay, well, on the weekends, but, but on the weekdays, but only when I'm done work. Yeah, [00:30:06] Ryan: for sure. [00:30:07] Poncho: And slowly you try to justify that. You know, what you're doing is okay. A hundred percent is, is that how it, because that, yeah, because that's how [00:30:15] Ryan: it was for me. Yeah. That's the progression, right? You, your brain tells you it's not a problem. It went from using maybe every three or four weeks when I saw these guys to, um, giving them a little money so I could, I wouldn't feel so guilty when I used their drugs. I chipped in, so now I can use some [00:30:30] to finding my own dealer and not telling them that I had my own still going over and using theirs, but being a hog and using my own in the bathroom and Right, and this progression. You're right. I, it was one of those things, I made these bargains with myself. Well, it's not that bad. I only use on weekends. And then that slowly turned into, well, uh, maybe Thursday and Friday night after work I'll use, and suddenly I'm using every night after work, hiding it using on weekends. And that progressed to one of those things, those bargains that, well, I'm not using at work. It's not that bad yet. And never thinking it was that bad until [00:31:00] I started using it work. [00:31:01] Poncho: Yeah. [00:31:01] Ryan: But still thinking that got control of this. [00:31:03] Poncho: And even then you're justifying it going, well, I'm functioning, I can get through the day. I'm getting up, I'm paying my bills. [00:31:08] Ryan: Absolutely. Yeah. It's my, I'm making all the money. I'm supporting my family. I, I'm coming in under budget on all my jobs. Still, it's not a problem. [00:31:15] Poncho: Right. And you're still, and so, so now you're, you're using alcohol and and cocaine. Absolutely. [00:31:21] Ryan: Yeah. And that progressed, uh, that was about two year run like that until it got to a point where people started to notice. My wife at [00:31:30] that time started to notice things were off, didn't know what it was, but things were off. [00:31:33] Poncho: So you were hiding it from your, your family, not the alcohol, but you're hiding the drugs from, from your wife? For sure. [00:31:37] Ryan: For sure. The alcohol was still part of everyday life. Nobody really questioned that. Um, but the drugs was, was a no-no. Right. I knew that was something that people would frown on, so I was hiding that. Nobody, other than the small group of people I used with, nobody really knew. [00:31:50] Poncho: Even the people that you were using with, did they know that you had your own dealer? Did they know that you were using even when you weren't with them? [00:31:59] Ryan: [00:32:00] Eventually, yeah, eventually they picked up on it. And then like all of addiction, right? The progression of addiction. It's a disease of isolation. So I stopped going around anybody who wanted, I didn't wanna share my drugs with anybody. Uh, one of the other trademarks of addiction is, um, all of the extracurricular things, all the things that used to be. Really important to you or passionate about you, stop doing them because it interferes with your drug use. So I stopped playing hockey altogether, right. I just stopped playing, stopped hanging out with those guys. Um, really started to pull back from the social circles [00:32:30] and just using on my own. [00:32:31] Poncho: So. So what would you do then? So you would just stay home and get high? Yeah, [00:32:35] Ryan: yeah. Lots of times For sure. Or make excuses to go for a drive. I gotta go to the shop, I gotta go check something out at the lease or, and just use by myself all the time. [00:32:43] Poncho: Not hang out with anybody. No, not [00:32:44] Ryan: do anything. There was no party. Yeah, there was no party. It was not a social event. It was, uh, it was, addiction is what it was. It was finding, getting, uh, using and then finding ways to get more. It started that compulsion, that obsession, which I didn't know anything about until I got [00:33:00] into recovery. And got educated, it just completely starts to overwhelm your life. You, if you're not high, you're thinking about how I'm gonna get more, when am I gonna use, what are the stories I'm telling people, I told this lie to that person. I gotta remember that. 'cause if they talked to this person, I told them a different story. Right. It's just this tangled web of exhaustion is what it was. [00:33:19] Poncho: Yeah. So there was a lot of, so you found yourself changing as a person then. I know you mentioned lying when you started using mm-hmm. Drugs. And that goes hand in hand because you don't want to, well, you [00:33:30] don't want to expose yourself for sure. You don't wanna tell those that you, you care about or your employer that you're, you know, that you're using. So you start telling this person that for sure. And this person that, so now you, you're, you're lying to the ones that you love. [00:33:43] Ryan: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And it came to, you know, like I said, people started to notice, my wife at that time started to notice something was up. Um, it came to a head. Um, I got an ultimatum that, uh. To be honest, I tried to take my life at that time. I look back now and I [00:34:00] see that that suicide, um, suicidality and that action to take my life was a cry for help. I really don't think I was really inebriated. I was. Drank in forties straight. I was doing lines. I was building the courage to try to take my life. And it ended up, um, I got located before something serious happened. Um, rushed to the hospital, um, spent a week in the psych ward and that's when I had my first trip to a recovery [00:34:30] center. [00:34:30] Poncho: And was it then that you realized that you had a problem or did you know in the back of your head, even when you were using, going on these drives that shit, I'm in trouble? [00:34:38] Ryan: Yeah. I knew near the end of that run that things were starting to, um, pile up on me. I was losing control, um, of my need for drugs. But I still thought, and it's the craziest part of addiction, is I still thought I could control it if I did it differently. So I went to treatment. A lot of people in my circles, my employer, all these people, um, really didn't know much about [00:35:00] addiction. Right. They thought you, well, you go to treatment, you check that box. Now you're good. Yeah. You're fixed. [00:35:04] Poncho: Yeah. [00:35:04] Ryan: Come back. Um, drugs and alcohol are removed from my life. I'm not supposed to use 'em anymore. Um. Go back to work. So all the stressors I had in my life were that still there? [00:35:13] Poncho: Yeah. I, I, yeah. Just because you check a box, it, it doesn't work that way. I, I mean, anybody that's ever used or is, is, uh, recovering mm-hmm. Knows it doesn't work that way. Right. It's one thing to be in, in a clinic away from all of the bad in the world For sure. Away from all of the temptation, away from [00:35:30] all of the choices. But you said it best. You walk outta those doors, you get back into your, into your job. There's all this stress right there. Wow. [00:35:37] Ryan: Yeah. It was, you know, somebody popped that safety bubble. Now the rubber meets the road again and holy smokes. And you've told me I can't use my only coping mechanisms that I've known for the last 25 years. So, um, yeah, this went on for about six months. I, I went to meetings. I stayed clean and sober off drugs and alcohol. Um, I. [00:36:00] But it was white knuckling. It was awful. I had so much stress fighting with my spouse, all these things. Um, and it finally, after about six months, came to a head again where I relapsed on alcohol. And within 40 minutes of having my first beer that night, I had an eight ball in my pocket. And away you go. Um. Looking back now, there's so many pieces. I said, you know, that day I had a beer. I relapsed that day. Looking back, now, I can piece [00:36:30] together. About four weeks prior to that where the pattern started to take over. I stopped going to my meetings, I stopped talking to my sponsor. I stopped being honest with my, all these things started, all my character defects, as they say in a program, started to really come back. Yeah. And then I started to fuel them again until I got to that point where I set up this relapse. Yeah. And it was justified. Right. I, I remember having a plan in my head, well, if she does that one more time, I'm going back out drinking, knowing that that event was gonna happen again, was going to [00:36:58] Poncho: happen. But you, you've convinced yourself [00:37:00] this is how you justify that what you're doing is okay. For sure. [00:37:02] Ryan: And I could place the blame elsewhere. [00:37:04] Poncho: Yeah. I, I, I want to talk about how, um, the doors were, you know, the, the, the, the light was exposed on mm-hmm. On your darkness and, um, uh. Your, your wife suspected something was, was going on. For sure. Why? How, how was it changes in your behavior? I know, totally. Yeah. [00:37:23] Ryan: So much change in behavior, right? Real aggressive, real short tempered, because I was always either, looking back now, I was [00:37:30] either high or going through some sort of withdrawal, and the only way, as we know when you get to that level of addiction to make the withdrawal go away as use again. Yeah. So it's just this continuous pattern, right? So I was never present, even if I was there. I was never present mentally. I was always thinking about how can I hide more money? How can I contact my dealer? Where can I, how, what excuse can I use to leave this house for two hours? All these things. Right, [00:37:52] Poncho: right. [00:37:53] Ryan: So lots of behavior that was abnormal for me at that time. [00:37:56] Poncho: It took a lot of courage for her to confront you about it. Courage and [00:38:00] anger. Yeah. There was a lot of anger, but yeah, a [00:38:02] Ryan: lot of courage for sure. Right. [00:38:04] Poncho: Yeah. So she just come, she just went up to you and said, Hey, what, what the, is going on, Ryan? [00:38:09] Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and, and like I said, there was a suicide attempt, um, tried to take my life. That was a huge red flag. Well, something's obviously wrong, right? Shock and awe when the test came back in the hospital that he's got a ton of cocaine in his system and well, then things got serious, right? Well, you gotta get some help. You gotta do this, this and that. And I'm, I'm like, okay, I'll do it all. And at, at that time, [00:38:30] looking back now, it was fear of losing. My wife, my house, my career, all these things. Right? It wasn't 'cause I thought I had a problem. I didn't wanna lose all this stuff and look like a lot of that stigma around being a big strong man. I didn't even want to go for help. Yeah. But I knew I had to, to check that box for people to get off my back. [00:38:46] Poncho: Yeah. [00:38:46] Ryan: So all these things that went into play, looking back at that time, I didn't know any of that stuff existed. Right. I just thought, okay, I'll go to treatment. [00:38:54] Poncho: Was was it affecting you financially as well? Oh, for sure. Because I know cocaine's not a cheap drug. [00:38:58] Ryan: No, no. The, [00:39:00] the rich man's drug, right? Yeah. And I was far from rich, but I was acting like I was [00:39:03] Poncho: right. [00:39:03] Ryan: Um, I was, you know, at the height of my addiction, I was spending three, $400 a day. Um, and when you're, so, you know, that really became part of my story in between treatments. So when I left treatment, um, I made it six months. Ended up going back out that night. I stayed out all night and uh, came home, stumbled home the next morning and really got in trouble for drinking. That was the evidence, [00:39:30] right? You look, you're hungover. It's hard to tell if somebody's been using drugs, but you look hungover, you smell like a brewery, all these things. So my wife let me have it for going out, drinking again. [00:39:39] Poncho: Right? [00:39:40] Ryan: Never once mentioned did you use drugs? So my crazy brain tells me, well just stop drinking. But she never said nothing about drugs. So maybe you could keep using those, just use 'em differently this time. [00:39:51] Poncho: And you said at one point $300 a day. [00:39:55] Ryan: Yeah, [00:39:58] Poncho: that's, uh, that's more than [00:40:00] $10,000 a month. It was, it was crazy. And it was, and salary, it was using financial places. How can you use credit cards? How can you go get cash back from Walmart hiding money, right? So that the, the. Evidence doesn't pile up on you. Um, and this went on, like I said, I, my brain, I told myself, I'll start using, I'll just use drugs. Stop drinking. Everyone will stay off your case then. [00:40:23] Poncho: Yeah. [00:40:24] Ryan: And, uh, once again, back to those bargains with yourself. Yep. Only use on weekends. Okay. I'm gonna stick to [00:40:30] that this time. Right. Uh, never use at work. Suddenly I'm using the odd and weeknight. Suddenly I'm not using at work still, but my work days are starting to end at two, three o'clock instead of five or six. So I'm still not in my brain. I'm like, okay, well I never used at work, my [00:40:45] Poncho: work, I justified work day's done. Totally. [00:40:47] Ryan: I just leave early. Uh, and that progressed, you know, we're talking probably two months of bargaining with myself and failing on these bargains and making another bargain and all these things to justify what I was doing to using, um, within two months of that [00:41:00] setback or that relapse I was using from the time my feet hit the floor till whenever it was I went to sleep. Could be a couple days. Um, continuously 24 hours a day, always using. That's where the financial piece came in. That's where the three $400 a day was. [00:41:15] Poncho: Yeah. [00:41:15] Ryan: Was really adding up. Because you could never, I don't know about yourself, but for me, using the worst thing that could happen to me was to have just a little bit left. Then panic sets in the anxiety. 'cause you know what comes if you run out. So it's about now [00:41:30] everything else doesn't matter. I gotta find ways and means to get more narcotics. Yeah. And wildlife. [00:41:35] Poncho: Yeah. Yeah. You know, you're looking at your supply going. I only have enough for half a day. Oh my [00:41:39] Ryan: gosh. For sure. And [00:41:40] Poncho: that becomes a priority. [00:41:41] Ryan: Yeah. Whereas two years ago, that amount would've lasted me a month. Yeah. Now it's enough for half a day. And that's the progression of tolerance. Right. And how we need more and more to get to that same level of high that we're never reaching again. [00:41:53] Poncho: Yeah. And the fact that, you know, this is what's consuming our mind, you know, the fact that we're already thinking of looking to get some more, [00:42:00] even though we already have some knowing full well that we shouldn't be involved with this to begin with. Absolutely. And, and especially with, you know, I can't speak for anyone else but my own use. But I mean with, as an example, cocaine, you always want that initial high. You always want that first time high for sure. And you need more and more and more. And that costs you more and more and more. Absolutely. And little did I know that likely you will not reach that first time high after extended use because your tolerance level's gone up so much. Yeah. [00:42:28] Ryan: You can't. And that's part of my [00:42:30] story later on. You can't pack enough of that in your nose to ever reach that high again. [00:42:34] Poncho: Yeah. [00:42:34] Ryan: Yeah. But you're chasing it 'cause you think there's a chance. Maybe if I do it differently this time, yeah. Maybe if I clean my nostrils out with saline enough, maybe it, it'll get up there. I'll get that high again. It's such a wild progression in the thought pattern that goes with it is nothing short of, [00:42:49] Poncho: I I've had that thought. Craziness. Yeah. I've, I've had that. I, I'll clean my nose out with saline solution. I, I don't wanna wait 36 hours until I can breeze up my nose again. Mm-hmm. 'cause I wanna get high now. [00:43:00] That is the power of addiction. Totally. [00:43:02] Ryan: And I'll tell you, you're exactly right. I remember growing up and hearing these stories. We used to get Detroit News all the time and I remember distinctly hearing this story on the news about somebody in the, in the, in the, um, low income housing or whatever drilled, used a drill. They found somebody who had used a drill in their nose and tried to commit suicide. They said, well I'm not, I get thinking back and I'm like, that story stands out to me. I'm like, that probably wasn't an attempt to take their life. He was probably trying to clean his nose out. 'cause I have been to that place, but I'm like, I [00:43:30] wonder what else I could stick up there to. Little did I know. It's trauma, it's swelling, it's all these things. It's not, your nose isn't clogged with cocaine. No, [00:43:37] Poncho: no. It's this, your nose is trying to heal itself. Totally. Because you've already abused it for so long. Oh my gosh. [00:43:43] Ryan: Yeah. So that's where I, I end up is this massive amount of money going towards my drugs. Still hiding it, but still painting that beautiful picture on the outside for everybody to see. [00:43:54] Poncho: You're, you're still keeping it together at this point? For the most part. Everybody from the outside looking in thinks that Ryan [00:44:00] has a shit together. [00:44:00] Ryan: Yeah. We bought a, a, a brand new house. We, you know, a vehicle. We got a dog, we got kids. We, we, the outside picture looks great. I'm not shown up to work late. I'm not, I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing, but I'm doing it now 24 hours a day. I'm doing it high. [00:44:14] Poncho: Yeah. [00:44:15] Ryan: And actually I went to work a couple times where I couldn't find. Uh, an extra stash or something. Right. And coming down. And people, if I wasn't high, people thought something was wrong with me, they're like, he's off today. [00:44:26] Poncho: Really? [00:44:26] Ryan: Oh yeah. It was such, so it's at [00:44:28] Poncho: a point now where drugs are, are [00:44:30] commanding your life. You need them now. Hundred percent. Just, just to function. [00:44:33] Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. Looking back now, I had no chance of, um, taking that off ramp from addiction at that point. It was overwhelmingly taken control of my life. Thi [00:44:42] Poncho: this, this is how powerful, uh, drugs can be. And I've, I've known people where, and I've, you know, I've, I've done the whole pipeline thing too. And, uh, it's a interesting life, but it, it's, it's i'll, I'll know people that will have kept people on their crew just because [00:45:00] they know that they can get good drugs. A hundred percent. Yeah. If, if I run out, I, well I got this guy hired. I know he can get them. I mean that's, that's the mind of totally. Of, of how we think when you're addicted to something. Yeah. [00:45:13] Ryan: A hundred percent. Yeah. There was times where I actually shut down a big job and I won't say the job in case anyone's listening. Sure. Specifically forgot some very important pieces, integral pieces to this shutdown. Yeah. In the shop. 'cause I knew my dealer couldn't meet me till 10 30 that morning. We had to leave town at [00:45:30] six 30. I knew once we get to that piece, oh the job's gotta come to, I'll go get the parts. They're in Swift Current, you dumb shit. You left them at the shop. Little did I or little did they know I hid them. Yeah. So I could go back to town 45 minutes and, and meet my dealer. Get those parts. And we we're talking like million dollar shutdown. Of this facility job. Yeah. I'm like, oh man, this is gonna look bad on the company, but I need this. But again, you've justified it. Oh my gosh. It was such a powerful pull. Wow. Yeah. [00:45:57] Poncho: So now you're affecting just not [00:46:00] your family and your career, but now, I mean, indirectly you're correct, your indirectly affecting the, the careers of the people that for sure that you've [00:46:10] Ryan: hired. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It was such a chaotic circle. Um, they talk about, you know, addiction is such a self-centered disease, and, and I can attest to that, right? I only thought I was hurting myself. I never, it's none of your business. I'm not impacting you at all, all these things. Right. Looking back now, I was impacting everyone around me [00:46:30] in one way or another. [00:46:31] Poncho: What was, uh, what was the breaking point for you? [00:46:35] Ryan: You know, it was, uh, two years after that first stint in treatment is, is my next breaking point. And I can distinctly remember things falling apart. My wife had asked me to leave the house. Um, I played it off. Okay, I'll go find my own place. These things we were gonna separate. Um, she had had enough of my bullshit 'cause things weren't normal and she didn't know I was using again. But that's why, um, I was actually, everybody thought. She thought I was looking for my own [00:47:00] place. Everyone else thought I was still at home. Nobody knew any problems were going on and I was sleeping on my couch in the office, in my office upstairs in our big shop. I would go there 10 o'clock at night, everybody's gone park my truck in the shop. I would use all night long, do whatever I need to do. I still had a gym membership at that time. I was only using it to shower. So I would go to the gym at like five 30 in the morning, have a shower, get back to the shop at six 30 or whatever. People think you're just coming into work. [00:47:25] Poncho: Right. [00:47:25] Ryan: And that went on for about a week and a half of pulling off, pulling off this charade, [00:47:29] Poncho: trying to fool [00:47:30] everybody. [00:47:30] Ryan: Yeah. Until it got too overwhelming on a Friday morning. I remember, um, somebody phoned in from the field, can you go get this order of steel? I went over there, grabbed it, dropped it off on the floor in the shop and said, this is my, this is it. I'm done here. I like, it's so overwhelming everything that's going on in my life and just that stress of, uh. Of all the lies, it started to really come down on me. All the lies, the dishonesty, the sh, the guilt, all those things started to pile up. And I'm like, I'm gonna take my life this weekend. Like, I cannot deal with this anymore. And I couldn't ask for [00:48:00] help again. In my mind, I've already been, 'cause you [00:48:01] Poncho: had already been to treatment and you had already been to rehab and now you've got those convinced that loved you, that you're sober for sure. And you're not Oh, a hundred percent. No. How, how long were you sober when you left treatment? At six months At the [00:48:12] Ryan: most? Yeah. Yeah. Six months and now we're two years later. So for a year and a half, I'd been telling this lie again that I'm, everybody thought I was in recovery and I'm using three, $400 of cocaine every day. [00:48:23] Poncho: So you pull into the shop with a load of steel. [00:48:24] Ryan: Yeah. And you're like. Throw it on the floor, get in my truck, and, and it hit me. This is it. Like I, [00:48:30] I'm gonna take my life this weekend, I think. [00:48:31] Poncho: Yeah. And, and, and, and that's what, and that was your thought. It wasn't about I need to stop using, I need to stop drinking. It was for sure. I'm tired of living. [00:48:39] Ryan: Yeah. I want my day. I knew if I reached out for and asked for help, that would be the end of the job, the career which I valued the most. That was my label. I was a pipeline, all these things. Right. I was a general manager in this, or assistant manager in this job. Uh, my wife was gonna divorce me, the house, everything was gonna be gone if I asked for help again. So I just thought, well, I'm just gonna leave. So I. I grabbed as much [00:49:00] cash as I could without setting off any alarms. Uh, hit the road, took the company truck, turned the phone off and hit the road. Left town that day, I grabbed a couple bottles of vodka I hadn't drank in a year and a half, [00:49:10] Poncho: so, so what, what, so what was your plan? Grabbed some money. Company truck driving and what? Yeah. [00:49:14] Ryan: Uh, ended up meeting up with my dealer, got a, a pile of cocaine and thought, I'm just gonna go and use and drink until I die. I'm gonna overdose this weekend. Overdose somehow. Overdose. Yeah. So I ended up getting the CD motel room in the, in the Saskatoon and all weekend long, just drank and used and drank and used [00:49:30] And just by yourself? By myself Just being on a suicide mission Really. And Monday morning rolled around and, uh, I hadn't died yet. I bet you felt like you would have. Oh my gosh. And, and I had re-upped with dealers that I knew already over the weekend. Yeah. And by this time, I'm like, well, what am I gonna do? Like, I'm not gonna die. By using and drinking enough in this short, I need, like, I got nowhere else to go. Um, and at that time I had maybe a couple hundred dollars left out of, [00:49:59] Poncho: out of how [00:50:00] much? [00:50:00] Ryan: About $1,500. Roughly. That from Friday till Sunday. Friday till Sunday. Okay. And, uh. I'm like, what am I gonna do? So I started driving down the highway, uh, grabbed a couple more bottles of vodka and I had enough cocaine that I thought, you know, this will get me through the day. At least I gotta go figure out what I'm gonna do here. And was driving down the single lane highway if anybody's driven from Saskatoon to, um, Rosetown. You know, that's a busy stretch of single lanes like the number three here and, and, uh, was using and drinking and would look up. And this is like 10 in the morning, in middle of [00:50:30] February. Where, where does your family think you are at this point? I haven't talked to anybody since Friday, so. So [00:50:34] Poncho: nobody has any [00:50:35] Ryan: idea where you are or what you're doing? No, not a clue. I hadn't talked to anybody about where I was, what I was doing. In my mind, I thought, well, I'm sure the police will be looking for me. I have the company truck, like, maybe it's theft. I don't know. I don't really care. I've used the fuel card a few times, all these things. Um. Driving down that, that double lane or single lane highway and look up, and I'm in the, I'm on the white line on the wrong side of the highway, like fully intoxicated using Coke as I'm driving. And it [00:51:00] was just such a bizarre day, um, thinking that, well, if I getting the head on, at least I take my seatbelt off. That's one way to do it. Get all the way to rosetown. Nothing happened. I'm like, man. I don't know what else I can do here. Um, sat behind, uh, a restaurant there for about two hours, just contemplating and using and like, well, I can't, I'm at a crossroads at that. Anybody knows that area of town, if I go north, I can go back to the treatment center. If I go south, I'm going back to my home. Like, well, I don't want to go to either of those right now. [00:51:30] Like, this is where it ends today. [00:51:31] Poncho: So you're literally at a crossroads and, and figuratively at, yeah, at a crossroads [00:51:36] Ryan: for sure. Uh, took the last pocket full of money I had to a pharmacy and took one of the little red hand carts down the aisle and just knocked every pill, cough syrup, whatever. I could get off the shelves into this. Went up to the till. It was about a hundred and, I don't know, $40 or something worth of pills or 150 bucks, whatever. And I distinctly remember that lady saying, man, you must be sick, Mr. And I'm like, you have no idea how sick I truly [00:52:00] am. [00:52:00] Poncho: And they still sold you all those cough, cough medications, the whole thing, no question asked, [00:52:04] Ryan: no, no questions. Nope. Uh, left there, started driving south down the highway and it just hit me. I, I saw a trail. Into this farmer's field, drove my white truck at a fully white, white truck. No les or anything. Drove down into the white snowy ditch, followed that farmer's trail down into the bottom of this Cooley, uh, and looked around and couldn't see anybody, couldn't see any houses, no farm. Something like this is perfect. It spun my truck around. This is about noon on that Monday. It's [00:52:30] like probably minus 25, minus 30, and just shut my truck off. And, uh, pulled the armrest open, dumped everything out of it, dumped every pill that was in that truck in there. I had some muscle relaxants, all these different things I'd accumulated over the, my using days, put 'em all in there, spun the lids off, all the cough syrup, lined up all the coke, couple bottles of booze. And I sat there for 12 hours just drinking and handfuls of pills and trying to finish it. And, uh, I remember it was about midnight, something like [00:53:00] that, completely black. The, the sky. There was no stars. And my truck was shut off. And I remember. Thinking to myself finally, the outside matches is how I feel. I remember having that thought. It, it is so black and hopeless in my life right now. How are you still even functioning at this point? It was like, there, it, it, it's a complete blur. After that, that was really the only memory I have is remembering the outside matches. The inside matches your soul right now. And I was content, I was in my mind, [00:53:30] I'm gonna eliminate the problem. There was a shift over the weekend, and I've talked about this before. I felt really guilty about all the stuff I had done and all the lies. But there was a shift over the weekend where it shifted from guilt to shame and I became shameful and that's when I recognized I'm the problem. I'm not creating problems for everyone else. I'm the problem. I'm the common denominator in everything I've done. I'm just gonna eliminate the problem from everybody's life and they can carry on. And that was that moment where I became okay with taking my life. And I talk about that lots in that moment. [00:54:00] You know, I have a semicolon tattoo. I've seen the one 800 crisis numbers. It wouldn't have mattered if those were flashing right in front of my truck. I was content of taking my last breath. And I remember passing out, you know, I don't remember the actual moment, but I remember passing out whatever time it was, three, four in the morning thinking that's, I'm okay with this. And it's 30 below. I've sat there without any heat for, it was free. It was, I thought for sure that was the end. And uh, there's a knock on my window at about five or six in the morning, in the middle of nowhere. Two [00:54:30] hours, two and a half hours from my hometown. And here's my uncle standing there knocking, banging on my truck window. Your uncle? My uncle, my dad's younger brother. And, uh. I remember waking up thinking what the F like, [00:54:43] Poncho: and you probably have no idea what's going on where you are and furious [00:54:46] Ryan: not. Yeah, totally. And why are you here? And then it starts to click like, I can't even take my own life. You gotta get outta here. All these things, right? And he finally gets the door open and I can see the ambulance lights out on the highway. I can see them in the sky. I couldn't see the [00:55:00] ambulance, but I could see that there's lights on the highway. And he's dragging me outta the truck and throws me in his four wheel drive and off to the highway we go. And I'm just a complete disaster, like a mess. So intoxicated and all the different cocktail of pills and cough syrup. And I don't really remember anything after that till we get to, I'm at the hospital and I'm getting the charcoal drinks and the tubes and throwing up and it was just chaos in the ICU. And turns out I come to hear this later on, uh, my [00:55:30] uncle, he grew up. Um, in my hometown, uh, got to know back in the sixties and seventies, tons of RCMP guys, they used to hang out all his buddies, they're all retired now, but some of them live in Regina. And like you had said, what is your family thinking that's going on this weekend? I didn't know, but turns out they were a little worried they hadn't heard from me in days. So my uncle contacted some of his retired buddies off the police force, and, uh, they knew enough people and this and that, that they got the OnStar turned on in my truck. And [00:56:00] that's how they found me. GP That's how they found yous. Yeah, because I had shut my phone off. I thought, there's no way I'm doing everything I can. I forgot that the truck has a GPS in. Yeah. And that's how he found me that night. Yeah. Or that morning. [00:56:10] Poncho: Oh. [00:56:11] Ryan: So yeah. Spent a week ICU intensive care. Got into a room. Um, still really angry. Still really suicidal into the psych ward for a bit. And everything that I thought, everything that kept me from reaching out for help was happening now. You know, I was terminated from my career. [00:56:30] Luckily, I I avoided any charges. Right. Legal charges. [00:56:33] Poncho: Yeah. [00:56:33] Ryan: Um, my wife was separating from me and I don't blame her. [00:56:38] Poncho: Yeah. I'm gonna file for a divorce. The house was up for sale, all these things. Right. Kids wouldn't talk to me. So you lost everything you had worked for And pretty much bankrupt. 'cause I'd spent every dollar I had on my drugs and money Gone [00:56:48] Poncho: house. Gone career gone. Yeah. Family gone. Wife gone. [00:56:50] Ryan: And, uh, there I sat like a week before my bi, my 40th birthday in the hospital, wondering, what are you gonna do now? Like, everything you have worked for, like your identity is gone, [00:57:00] you have nothing, nothing left. And I ended up going, uh, going back to treatment, the same treatment center and uh, walking in. Not wanting to be there. Still kind of having that char, that charade, that that facade that, uh, I got this, you know, still putting up that tough guy image. And it wasn't until Poncho, this is where I recognized the power of lived experience. It wasn't until a counselor who I had no one from the previous time I was there, but he wasn't my counselor, he was a counselor in the other group, [00:57:30] uh, older fellow. He walked by off between groups one day. This was about about four or five days after I've been there and telling everybody, you know, I got this, I'm gonna make it recovery. And, and he grabbed me by the shoulder and he goes, listen, if you wanna f and die. Keep lying to yourself. When you're ready to get honest, come and find me. Huh. And he just kept walking and I was so mad. I'm like, you're a counselor. You can't talk to me like that and this and that. But I went to my room that night after thinking about it during the day, and the anger wore off. And I'm like, how did he know? So I found him the next day and talked to him then, and he's [00:58:00] like, well, I was you 26 years ago, man. I would come off a bike gang, or, uh, he was on a bike gang in Vancouver Street's, been shot, all these things. And he's like, I'm 25 years in recovery now, but I was you tough guy walking in here. I got this figured out and I, I almost died. [00:58:14] Poncho: Yeah. And [00:58:15] Ryan: he said, you will die. Like, how much closer do you think you can get? So it turns out, you know, I, we talked for a bit and, uh, over the course of the next seven weeks, he was never my specific counselor, but he took it upon himself to work with me in the evenings, uh, 12 step guides [00:58:30] from the program we were working through, highlighting questions that he thought were specific to my, uh, experience and what I was going through. Work through these. Come find me tomorrow night. We'll go through them. So he didn't have to do that, but he knew how important it was. And, you know, it was that seven weeks working with him. Turn that light bulb on that. Well, maybe there is a different way to live. Maybe there is some hope for this. Maybe I can do something different. [00:58:56] Poncho: The what, what? [00:59:00] It's something. And, and you said it without really saying it. If you're an addict, uh, recovering or otherwise. You don't, you won't stop until you actually want to. Mm-hmm. At the end of the day, that's who has to make that choice for sure, doesn't it? [00:59:20] Ryan: Yeah. [00:59:20] Poncho: You want to stop if you want to make it effective. [00:59:23] Ryan: For sure, for sure. The, the, the, we talk about this lots in the program that I'm teaching now, is the, the, [00:59:30] the consequences. The fear of change. The fear of change, and the fear of the existential consequences. The weight of that has to start outweighing the other one in order for you to start thinking about making change, you know, not pushing through that fear of change and starting to recognize all of the weight of the consequences. Man, they're gonna get worse. They're gonna get worse. [00:59:55] Poncho: I, I think what we're gonna do, I think we're gonna take a, a break. Mm-hmm. Right here. I think this is a, a wonderful [01:00:00] time to take a break now that we've reached the, the, the epicenter For sure. You know the, the crisis point of, of your life. Yeah. And when we come back. We'll explore at what you needed to do to take yourself from the lowest point of your life to where you are now. Absolutely. Yeah. Right. Thank you. Absolutely. Thanks, poncho. [01:00:19] Voice Over: From Darkness to Life is an our collective journey podcast. These are the true stories of struggles and triumphs against addiction and mental health challenges. If these stories resonate with [01:00:30] you and you or someone you love, need help, and don't know where to turn, our collective journey is here for you. Please consider supporting Ocj by visiting our collective journey.ca and clicking donate. All proceeds go to supporting the health and wellness of people in our community, hosted by members of our collective journey, produced by Rob Pate, engineered, edited, and directed by Dave Crookshank From Darkness to Life is a plugged in media exclusive. Thank you for [01:01:00] listening.