TRANSCRIPT ========== [00:00] Barb There was a party that night, so we called his friend to come pick him up. And I said, you realize if you leave this house, you can't come back. And he said, Mom, I know. I don't think I'm going to live past 21 anyway. And he left. And that was my breaking point. I went to bed that night, and I just didn't want to be here anymore. I had it all worked out, how I was going to end my life. And it just wasn't going to hurt anymore. [00:36] Announcer From Darkness to Life contains the real stories of individuals who found their way out of the darkness caused by mental health challenges and substance abuse. If these stories resonate with you, and you or someone you love need help and don't know where to turn, Our Collective Journey is here for you. Please reach out when you're ready to ourcollectivejourney.ca or on Facebook at Our Collective Journey. [01:01] Poncho From the poker room at the Medicine Hat Cypress Club, welcome to another episode of From Darkness to Life. I'm your host, Poncho Parker. And today, talking about a kind of heartbreak, I guess, that doesn't get talked about nearly enough. And to talk about that, my guest, Barbara Hillier [surname provisional], a mom whose son has spent years battling addiction and alcoholism and for more than a decade—more than a decade. So we're talking more than 3,650 days. Barb has lived through fear and I would imagine guilt and probably helplessness and grief. [01:44] Barb Loneliness. [01:46] Poncho That comes from watching someone you love, I guess, slowly disappear into addiction. And you spent countless nights, sleepless nights, wondering where your boy was, wondering where your son was. You've celebrated the big moments in your life. You've celebrated the holidays without him. You've struggled to understand the difference between helping and the difference between enabling. And at one point, I don't care how strong anyone is, any human can only take so much. [02:20] Barb Absolutely. [02:21] Poncho And it pushed all of that into your own mental health crisis. And so Barb's story just isn't about addiction. This is about a woman. This is about a mom. This is about a mother learning that she could still save herself, even if it means not saving those closest to you. Today, your son is in treatment. Is your son in treatment? [02:44] Barb He just got out. [02:46] Poncho Okay. [02:46] Barb He's almost five months sober and doing amazing. [02:52] Poncho That's how you want to start a podcast. That's how you want to start an episode of this because there is a lot of darkness to cover, but to have such light right at the start. So in advance, thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for your courage. [03:07] Barb Oh, thanks for having me here. [03:08] Poncho Before addiction entered the picture, who was Barb's son? Who was your boy? [03:18] Barb My son, Aaron, he saved my life. I was a single mom for his entire life and it was just me and him. We started off, you know, just the two of us and eventually moved here to Redcliff. And this is really where his life began. He was six years old when we moved here and small town, I thought this is going to be amazing for him. Streets he can play on, things he can do where he doesn't have to be in the big city like Calgary and that kind of thing. [04:02] Poncho So what kind of future did you imagine for him? So you moved to small-town Alberta and you probably think it's going to be that small town lifestyle, as you mentioned, just playing in the streets until the sun set, not having to worry about where your child was. [04:18] Barb Absolutely. [04:19] Poncho Innocent fun. [04:20] Barb Innocent fun. And I always sort of pictured him growing up and going on to college or university and having an amazing career and a good family and, you know, a home of his own and everything most parents wish for their kids. That was always what I pictured for him. I struggled a bit in my teen years. And like I said, he kind of saved my life and helped me change my life around and do what needed to be done to be a good mom. [04:55] Poncho And that's what you mean when you say he saved your life. [04:57] Barb Absolutely. [04:58] Poncho It gave you no choice, but you had to reassess what your priorities were. And in this case— [05:02] Barb He became number one priority to me. And he was doing really well when we first moved to Redcliff. He went through elementary school there and everything seemed good. He was kind of always sort of the short, chubby, funny kid in class. And I know that bothered him a little bit, but I loved him anyways. And he had so many friends and everybody loved him. And it wasn't until he got to junior high school that things kind of took a turn. He discovered football. And in grade nine, he began playing for the Parkside Pythons in Redcliff. And absolutely, it was like this light came out of him when he played football. [05:51] Barb He was determined and he was dedicated and he was part of a team and he just loved it. And he knew everything about football. And I loved watching him play. And I went to every practice and every game and that was great. What I didn't know was that on the weekends, he was binge drinking. [06:14] Poncho And how old was he? [06:16] Barb That was about 14. [06:18] Poncho At 14. And you moved to Redcliff when he was around six? [06:21] Barb When he was six, yeah. And I remember the police brought him home one time. They had stolen something or I can't remember what it was. I think they had stolen some empties from somebody's porch and the RCMP brought him home. And I remember asking the RCMP officer, what do I do? Like, he's drinking all the time. [06:43] Poncho You knew that he had been drinking before the police brought him home? [06:45] Barb Well, I knew that there was certain things. He came home when he was 13 and we actually had to be in Calgary the next morning for an eye appointment because he had an issue with his eye. And he came home at three o'clock in the morning drunk. And that was a rough drive to Calgary and a rough eye appointment. [07:05] Poncho Is that when you remember that little voice inside of your head saying, because mom's intuition when it comes to their kid, it's like a superpower. So, when did that little voice inside your head go, hey, something isn't right here? [07:21] Barb Right then. It never occurred to me that it could be addiction. I just thought he's partying. I partied as a kid. [07:29] Poncho Just a kid being a kid, a kid having fun. Who hasn't? [07:32] Barb And I remember the RCMP officer said to me, that's just what kids do in Redcliff. They either drink and party or they play hockey. And my kid couldn't skate. So, I let myself be fooled into thinking, okay, this is just normal. It's just teenage rebellion. It's just teenage shenanigans. Like, he'll get over this just like everybody else will. I did. He will. And it continued. During football season, it was amazing. But when football season ended, he wasn't part of that team anymore, and he wasn't going to practices and games, and he didn't have that thing to focus on. He was getting into trouble. I didn't know how bad the drinking was. [08:18] Poncho The partying continued even if it wasn't football season. [08:21] Barb I didn't know how bad it was. I didn't. [08:24] Poncho So, when did you realize that this wasn't a phase? [08:26] Barb It was probably the start of grade 12. We had moved to Medicine Hat so he could go to Crescent Heights because he wanted to play football for Crescent Heights. And he got injured right at the beginning of the season and broke his finger and had to have surgery and have a pin put in his finger. So he was basically off the team. And I remember, in the first home game they had, I got a call from a police officer, a Medicine Hat police officer, and he introduced himself and said that my son was drunk at the game and running onto the field and causing a disturbance. And I could hear my kid in the background screaming, he's lying, he's lying. This isn't, you know, it's not true. At first, I thought it was a joke one of his friends was playing. I didn't really know what to believe. [09:16] Poncho Had your son been getting into lots of trouble up until this point? [09:19] Barb Not really. [09:20] Poncho You mentioned the police brought him home once previous and they sloughed it off as, hey, that's just what kids do in this town. [09:26] Barb Right. And no, it was just the typical teenage stuff where he would fail a test or he would skip school or things like that. It was never anything serious. He wasn't getting arrested for shoplifting or fighting or anything like that. Like he was never into any of that stuff. So I was concerned, but not enough to look deeper. And that's sort of where I started feeling failure for the first time. Like, how did I not notice? How did I not realize that this was happening? [10:07] Poncho You didn't fail as a mom. [10:09] Barb Well, the feeling was there, you know. [10:11] Poncho You might have felt like you were failing. [10:13] Barb Absolutely. [10:14] Poncho But you weren't. [10:14] Barb No, and I wasn't. But it doesn't make the feelings. And at the time, too, I couldn't share with my other friends who were moms at the school or moms of other football players, because their kids were doing great. How do I tell them my kid's not? How do I tell them that, you know, being kicked off the football team or let go from the football team because he was injured was the worst thing that could have happened to him? Because his compass just shifted, and he didn't know where to go. [10:49] Poncho Because football was his passion. [10:52] Barb Absolutely. [10:52] Poncho He gets injured right at the start of the season. So where do you turn? Chances are you turn to alcohol because that's what he was already familiar with. [10:59] Barb He still went to the parties. [11:00] Poncho Yeah. [11:01] Barb He just didn't go to the games or the practices or any of the stuff that kept him sort of disciplined and on some sort of path. [11:08] Poncho And so when did you realize that this wasn't a phase? When did you realize that this is more than just a teen being a teen and doing the teenage partying thing? [11:18] Barb It actually wasn't until he was in his early 20s and he's going to be 28 this year. So it was when he was in his early 20s. I don't even know how to explain—it was almost like there were two kids. I had sober Aaron and drunk Aaron and he was working as a bartender, which was a fantastic job for someone with an alcohol addiction. But he was working in a sports bar and that was great for him because he's one of those people who knows every player, every stat, about all the sports. [12:10] Barb So working in a sports bar was great for him. And if he wasn't an alcoholic, I think he would have completely shone in that game—or, sorry, in that role. But he started missing—he would go to work, and then he would leave work and he would go drink. And I didn't even know the depths of it. We would find empty liquor bottles. [12:39] Poncho So he was hiding this? [12:41] Barb Absolutely. He was hiding it as best he could. But it was pretty much an every night thing where he was drinking. [12:51] Poncho Before and at work and after work? [12:55] Barb I think so. I don't know for certain, but I think his addiction was so far along that he would wake up and have to drink to survive just to function in everyday society. But once I realized sort of what was happening, I didn't know what to do. I didn't know where to turn. I didn't. [13:17] Poncho And he's living at home with? [13:18] Barb He was living at home at the time. COVID hit. And so we're all trapped in this house. My now husband was living with us at the time and my son. And we're all trapped inside this house and we're all going stir crazy. And I noticed alcohol going missing. We had to put a lock on the fridge downstairs. I still didn't realize how bad this was. [13:46] Poncho Did you try talking to him about it at all? [13:49] Barb I remember thinking like he can just stop. Like just stop drinking. I thought he was just being a jerk. I thought he was just, you know, I didn't realize what the addiction was. I didn't realize the hold that it had on him. I didn't know any of that. He would come home at two, three o'clock in the morning and he would bring people to our house. He would bring random girls to our house. He would, you know, I'd wake up at three o'clock in the morning having to work the next day and there's people partying in my house. There's strangers in my house. I learned not to sleep. I stayed awake for most of the night or barely slept. I didn't get much sleep. My relationships were suffering. I remember talking to family about it and their solution was kick him out. But he has nowhere to go. Kick him out. It's not your problem. [14:49] Poncho Easier said than done. [14:51] Barb Yeah, especially when you're a mom. [14:53] Poncho And that's not their son. This is your son. [14:57] Barb He got picked up by the police. I remember when he was 18 was the first time he got arrested. And he was at a house party with a bunch of high school kids. And the police showed up to break up the party and my son and his friend were arrested. The two 18 year olds at the party. And they charged my son with disturbing the peace, basically. And that was the first time that he had actually gone to the drunk tank, been in the drunk tank overnight, you know. And I went and picked him up the next day and I brought him home and, you know, he came home, had something to eat and went to bed. [15:42] Poncho And that was the end of it. [15:43] Barb And that was the end of it. I didn't, I didn't have the tools to talk to him to confront him. I didn't want the fight. I didn't want the argument. I didn't, I didn't want to face the reality or the truth of what was really going on. [15:58] Poncho And behavior like this was becoming more common. [16:01] Barb Absolutely. [16:02] Poncho We're seeing more of—you mentioned earlier that you didn't know what son you were going to have to contend with. [16:08] Barb Yeah. [16:08] Poncho And so you were seeing more of the addiction Aaron and not the sober— [16:13] Barb Sober. [16:14] Poncho So was there a moment when you felt like you were losing your son? [16:20] Barb It was when my son was, I think he was about 21 years old and it was, I remember it was a Wednesday and it was about five o'clock in the evening and he came home and he was so drunk he couldn't even stand. And I told him that he had two choices. He could leave and never come back to my house. Or he could call the, the detox center. And he called the detox centre. He agreed and finally called the detox centre. And I remember, you couldn't even understand what was coming out of his mouth. He was so intoxicated. And they told him, we'll call you back in 72 hours. Don't stop drinking because alcoholics can have seizures if they stop drinking suddenly. [17:12] Barb So they told him, don't stop drinking. And I'm sure that's not what they meant. They didn't mean continue partying until we call you. What they meant was just be careful. Right. And so, to Aaron, he said, "Well, they told me not to stop drinking." [17:31] Poncho Like a free pass. [17:32] Barb Well, yeah. There was a party that night, so we called his friend to come pick him up. And I said, "You realize if you leave this house, you can't come back." And he said, "Mom, I know." He said, "I don't think I'm going to live past 21 anyway." And he left. And that was my breaking point. And that was also when I knew something had to change. I had to learn. I had to figure things out because I went to bed that night and I just didn't want to be here anymore. I had it all worked out how I was going to end my life. And it just wasn't going to hurt anymore. [18:21] Poncho What hurt the most? Watching him hurt? Watching— [18:25] Barb Realizing that I was going to have to bury my son before he was 25 years old. [18:31] Poncho And that's what you saw in his future and in yours. [18:37] Barb Absolutely. I had no doubt he had had medical things sort of come up from the drinking where he had, you know, kidney issues and liver issues and things like that. I remember he came downstairs into the kitchen one day and he looked like an 80-year-old man. He couldn't even stand up straight because he was so detoxing from the alcohol. And I took him to a doctor and they did tests and everything came back normal. And I couldn't understand that, but they said, no, he's fine. And I stuck to my word, though. So that night was the darkest night. And I remember calling my mom, mostly because I just wanted someone to take care of my dogs. [19:31] Barb That was all I could think about was I'm going to go. But somebody has to look after my dogs because they won't understand. And that's where my head was. [19:42] Poncho You felt you had lost your son? [19:43] Barb I didn't think I'd ever see him again. [19:47] Poncho Because you said that you. You said you loved him, you missed him and you mourned him all at once. [19:54] Barb All in that one moment, as he left the house. He hugged me and he said, "I might never see you again." That was unfathomable to me. I didn't know how to process that. [20:14] Poncho So your world stopped, right? [20:16] Barb Absolutely. And I remember reaching out to my mom and just there must have been something in my voice because I obviously didn't come out and tell her. But it was about 15 minutes into the phone conversation and the police showed up at my house just to check on me. And that sort of break in my thought pattern, having to all of a sudden stop and deal with the police was enough for me to sort of change the trajectory of my thoughts. And I realized I can't let myself get to this point. Something has to change. And what has to change is how I deal with my son. [21:07] Barb And I started doing research on alcoholism. And I mean, you hear about alcoholics all the time. My father was an alcoholic. My son's biological father was an alcoholic. Family members were alcoholics. You hear about it all the time. And you just think of someone who's just stumbling around drunk all the time. [21:24] Poncho Yeah. [21:24] Barb Not somebody who's functioning and, you know. So I started doing a lot of research. And I remember Googling, how do I know if I'm enabling my son? And there were eight questions. And I answered the questions, and it said, "If you answered yes to any of these questions, you are probably enabling." [21:48] Poncho But I bet you thought you weren't enabling your son. I bet you thought you were helping your son. [21:52] Barb I was being a mom. He said he was hungry. I sent him money for food because I didn't let him come home after that night. And so he stayed on friends' couches and he bounced around from place to place. [22:04] Poncho And so that's what helping looked like back then. [22:07] Barb That's what moms do. [22:09] Poncho Yeah. [22:09] Barb You know, he needed something. I brought him groceries or I sent him money or I picked him up and I took him to his court case or I, you know, things like that. [22:19] Poncho So when did you realize that some of what you thought was help was actually enabling him? [22:25] Barb Well, like I said, there were eight questions and it said, if you answer yes to one of them, even one of them, you're enabling. I answered yes to all eight. Have you ever, you know, lied to people to protect your child? Have you ever sent them money when you shouldn't have, knowing that their money got spent on alcohol? I continually gave him a soft place to land. They talk about rock bottom, and everyone's rock bottom is different, but I never gave him a rock bottom. I never let him reach a rock bottom because I made sure if he got evicted, I paid his rent at a new place just so he didn't come home because that made my life easier. [23:14] Barb I did everything I could to sort of protect him from the consequences of this addiction and what it was costing him. He never had to see it. [23:28] Poncho How much guilt were you carrying during those years? [23:31] Barb Immense guilt. Immense. This was my son. And the one thing I couldn't do was help him. And when I finally realized that the things that I was doing were enabling him—and I'm his mom. I can't even feed him. I can't clothe him. I can't do any of these things without giving this addiction a foothold. [23:58] Poncho So you're feeling guilty. And on top of that, you're probably blaming yourself. [24:03] Barb 100%. For not seeing it, for not getting him help sooner, for not seeing the signs, for everything. Was I a bad mom? I mean— [24:14] Poncho Emotionally, how did that affect you as time went on? [24:17] Barb It was tough. And I felt so alone. I didn't know who to turn to, who I could talk to. I did go to an Al-Anon meeting. And I think Al-Anon and AA and CA and I think they're amazing. It wasn't for me. I needed answers. I needed to be able to say to someone, this is what my son's doing. What do I do? And that's not what Al-Anon is about. And that's what I needed at the time. So I didn't go that route, but I actually found an online group of moms of addicted children. [25:01] Poncho And was this the moment that changed everything? [25:03] Barb 100%. It was night and day. [25:07] Poncho Because I mean, at one point you said you even isolated yourself from friends and family. [25:10] Barb Exactly. I wasn't alone. There were other people going through this. The stuff that was happening with my son wasn't isolated. This is what was happening to other children. [25:26] Poncho What's the name of the group? [25:28] Barb Moms of Addicted Children, I believe. I'm still a member of it today, but I don't quite remember the name. [25:37] Poncho Because everybody needs to walk their own path. [25:39] Barb Absolutely. [25:40] Poncho And what might work for someone might not work for someone else. And this is what worked for you. This was the turnaround moment for you. [25:47] Barb I didn't feel alone anymore. Even though these were people on the other side of the world, some of them. Some were here in Canada and even in Alberta. And I'm sure some are even in Medicine Hat. But these were my people. These were the people who understood not opening the door when your son is ringing the doorbell at four o'clock in the morning. These are the people who have had to block their children because of the incessant phone calls when they're drunk or when they need something. [26:20] Poncho So they taught you that if you wanted to save your son, you needed to save yourself first? [26:24] Barb Absolutely. I came to a realization that I am not participating in this addiction anymore. It's not healthy for me. It's not healthy for my son. I will be there from the moment you choose recovery. [26:41] Poncho Yeah. [26:43] Barb But as far as your addiction is concerned, I'm no longer a part of this. [26:47] Poncho And you're doing this because of love. [26:49] Barb Oh, I knew that if I didn't, he was going to die. And the thought of sending him $20, or he says for something to eat, and what if that's the $20 that buys him that last bottle and he dies of alcohol poisoning? Or he was getting more mentally unstable as well, and his mental health was suffering from it. And what if this is the time that I give him the money and there's enough alcohol in his system that he does take his own life, that he does jump off a bridge or step in front of a train or whatever it happens to be? And what if that's my $20 that did that? What if I'm killing him? [27:36] Barb And I just could not allow that to happen. I knew I needed to fight, but I couldn't fight my son. I needed to fight the addiction. And I needed to not enable the addiction any further. [27:50] Poncho So you set boundaries. [27:52] Barb Absolutely. [27:53] Poncho And how did that start to change your life? [27:56] Barb It changed my life immensely. [27:59] Poncho Yeah. [27:59] Barb Because I felt comfortable in my decisions again. My son was no longer allowed in our home. I was no longer sending him money. I mean, there were plenty of times where he was in Calgary after his first trip to rehab, and he would get a place and things would be fine for about a week. [28:27] Poncho Yeah. [28:27] Barb And then he'd start drinking again, and he would get evicted, and he would be on the streets. And I had to be okay with saying, there's a shelter you can go to. I'm not sending you money. [28:41] Poncho How was his reaction when you said, Look, I'm not going to participate in this part of your behavior anymore? [28:48] Barb His immediate reaction was, well, it's going to be your fault if I die then. If I die on the streets, it's going to be your fault. And I learned to be okay with that information. I took it in, and I said, Maybe it will be my fault. Because I said no. But I had to say no. [29:12] Poncho For your sake and for his sake. [29:13] Barb Absolutely. [29:14] Poncho Whether he knew it or not at the time. When did Barb start feeling like Barb? [29:20] Barb I don't think I did until probably within the last year. [29:30] Poncho When did you start feeling not like the mother of an addict, but who you are as you? Within the last year, after— [29:37] Barb Oh, that would be within the last couple of months. [29:40] Poncho Last couple of months. [29:42] Barb My son went to the same treatment centre in Calgary, a place called Simon House. He was there three times. And I learned only because he's been in an amazing treatment center in Lethbridge now, that Simon House was more of sort of a place for people to go, do their 90 days, and then they just, they're gone. There's no follow up. There's no recovery community. There's nothing. But I think each time that Aaron went to treatment, he picked up something new. He learned something new about recovery and about himself. [30:25] Poncho And you think this time feels different? [30:28] Barb I just can't even explain to you how great it feels to look at my son and see my son again. Now, the place that he found in Lethbridge is called Fresh Start Recovery. And I can't say enough good things about Fresh Start. They took Aaron in, and I remember it was December 23rd. So it was two days before Christmas. I knew we weren't going to spend Christmas together that year, obviously, but at least he was safe. At least he was getting help. And he was in there for about four months. And we drove down for, they call it a gratitude, and it's kind of like a graduation for that group of addicts. And I was so proud to see him get up and to give his speech. [31:21] Barb But each time he went to treatment, I was sort of convinced that this will be the time. This will be the cure. This will be the time that it sticks. And within two weeks of getting out, he was drinking again. He hadn't dealt with the things in his life that he needed to deal with. He was still carrying some of that trauma and those feelings, those insecurities with him. So just to quickly go back, I think Aaron started drinking because of the insecurities. And I think it made him the loud, funny, popular kid at the parties. And I believe that if you have the gene of addiction, you take that first drink and you are addicted. [32:14] Barb And he just fed the addiction all through his childhood without me realizing it. [32:22] Poncho Or anyone realizing. [32:23] Barb Or anyone realizing. [32:24] Poncho Including him. [32:25] Barb Everyone thought, oh, he's got a problem, but he's just a troubled kid. [32:29] Poncho Just a kid being a kid. Some are a little more wild than others, right? [32:32] Barb Yeah, he gets into trouble. It's whatever. He's just the kid no one, you know, you don't want your kids hanging around with because you just don't know what he's going to get himself into. But deep down, he's such a loving, empathetic, caring person. And so I could see that kid still in there. I just didn't know how to stop this addict from taking over all the time. So after he got out of Fresh Start the first time and began drinking, within two weeks, he was back in a detox center. But I was okay with that. At least he realized, and it was two weeks, and he didn't blow up his entire life. He wasn't homeless again. He wasn't, you know. [33:19] Barb And then it was within two weeks after that that one of his very, very good friends, who has also been through the program and grew up with him here in Medicine Hat—and ironically used to drink with him when they were younger—he went over to his house with a couple more of their friends from recovery and said, you need to go back. Like, you're not done. You need to go back. And he called Fresh Start again, and they got him back in right away. And so then he was in there for another four months. But while he was in there this time, he worked on the things that were still triggering him. And he became sort of a leader in the house. And they gave him responsibilities, and he began serving others rather than just himself. [34:10] Barb And I've seen such a change in him now that I feel like I have my son back. That he's there again. I can see his face again, and I love spending time with him again. I used to go visit him, and I couldn't wait to leave. [34:28] Poncho You feel like you got the son back that you had when he was six again. [34:32] Barb Absolutely. [34:33] Poncho On those small-town streets in Redcliff again. [34:35] Barb It's crazy to me that it's taken this long. But maybe this is the path that he needed to walk. Maybe this was what he needed to do. And I will feel forever blessed that his rock bottom was not death. Because any of the things that he's lived through, being homeless, not eating for days, not showering for days, losing all of his friends, his family, his job, everything. Any one of those would have been my rock bottom, I think. But none of those were for him. So I remember thinking one day, God, what if his rock bottom really is death? What if that's where my son is headed and I can't do anything to stop it? [35:27] Barb They talk about the three C's of Al-Anon. Didn't cause it, you can't cure it, and you can't control it. And those are really hard things for a mom. I remember my son said to me one time, and this is where sort of my idea of alcoholism really changed. He said, Mom, this addiction wants to kill me, but it will be satisfied by destroying my life and taking away everything I love. And that moment is when it hit me that he's not choosing to do this. He's not choosing to drink because I always felt like, oh, he's just weak. Just don't drink. I don't understand. Why do you keep throwing everything away? [36:15] Poncho Addiction doesn't work that way. [36:16] Barb Yeah, you take 10 steps forward and 20 steps back. I don't get it. And it was that moment that it clicked for me and I went, he's not choosing this. He would not choose this. And I started looking at it in a different light. And my son's been sober for five months, and I'm so proud of him and of the person he's becoming. And in Lethbridge, through Fresh Start, he has the most incredible recovery support. And he's participating in things, and he's helping in the community and helping other addicts and alcoholics. And I'm just so grateful, but I know I don't care how much time goes on. Those thoughts will still creep in. [37:12] Barb I hope that eventually the life he has and the strength that he's building is stronger than those thoughts, but that addiction is never going to leave him. But if that should happen, I no longer blame him for being an addict. And I did for a long time. I blamed him for not being the son that I wanted him to be. For not fulfilling all these dreams I had for him. [37:46] Poncho But maybe there isn't blame because you can't blame yourself either. [37:50] Barb No, I blame the addiction. And I literally look at the addiction as almost like an entity in my son's body. And that's who I blame. And that's who I'll fight until my dying day. I will fight this addiction with my son. [38:08] Poncho Well, addiction is equivalent to that of disease. And people fight disease, and people need to fight addiction. Let me ask you this: if another mother sat across from you today, if there's another mom listening to this going, "I don't know how much longer I can do this," what do you say to her? [38:25] Barb You're not alone. Believe me, you're not alone. It feels like you are. It feels like you have no one to turn to, no one who could possibly understand what you're going through. And I would want that mother to know that you're doing what you can. You're doing what you were meant to do. And sometimes being the mom of an addict or an alcoholic means stepping back. [38:58] Poncho One last question. I ask this of all of our guests: what message of hope do you want listeners of the podcast to hear today? [39:06] Barb Never give up. Never, ever, ever give up. I think all of our children deserve a chance. And I think we need to do whatever we can to give them the best shot at fighting this. [39:26] Poncho When we started this podcast, you said you were nervous. How you feeling now? [39:30] Barb I feel a lot better. [39:31] Poncho Thank you for your honesty. Thank you so much for your courage. Your story is a reminder that addiction affects not just the people directly involved. It affects their families. You know, the people that love them the most. And it reminds us that love sometimes means being tough, being hard. Sometimes it means letting go, you know, and that boundaries can be, I guess, acts of love, can't they? [40:02] Barb If you do it with love, but you have to let the anger go because that's what this addiction wants. It wants to take this person that it's gotten a hold of and isolate it from everything that loves him. And you can't let that happen. You can set your boundaries and you definitely do not support that addiction, but you have to do it with love and be ready because they will take that step towards recovery one day and be there. Be there for them. Support them. Listen to them. [40:38] Poncho Love yourself. Remind yourself that you're never a bad parent. Just because your child is struggling doesn't make you any less worthy. [40:46] Barb You didn't cause it. [40:48] Poncho Thank you for joining us on From Darkness to Life. [40:50] Barb Thank you for having me. [40:51] Poncho There is hope. There is help. There is always a path forward. We will see you next time. [40:57] Announcer From Darkness to Life is an Our Collective Journey podcast. These are the true stories of struggles and triumphs against addiction and mental health challenges. If these stories resonate with you, and you or someone you love need help and don't know where to turn, Our Collective Journey is here for you. Please consider supporting OCJ by visiting ourcollectivejourney.ca and clicking donate. All proceeds go to supporting the health and wellness of people in our community. Hosted by Poncho Parker. Produced by Carla Spampinato. Engineered, edited, and directed by Dave Cruickshank. From Darkness to Life is an Our Collective Journey exclusive. Thank you for listening.