Miriam Allred (00:01.533)
Welcome to the Home Care Strategy Lab. I'm your host, Miriam Allred. Today I'm in the lab with Alex Chamberlain, the owner of Easy Living in Clearwater, Florida. Alex, thanks for being here in the lab with me.

Alex Chamberlain (00:15.458)
Yeah, I appreciate the opportunity.

Miriam Allred (00:17.365)
We don't know each other super well, but we've had a couple of good conversations recently brought together by mutual connections. So I'm really looking forward to learning from you and talking a little bit about some of your skills and areas of interest in building up your business. So let's jump in and start with your origin story. You, your mom, the family business, multiple businesses coming together, your background's pretty interesting. So would you go ahead and share that with us?

Alex Chamberlain (00:41.816)
Yeah, of course. So I'd say to really begin the journey, have to start with my mom. She's the founder and entrepreneur of this entire kind of senior world that I've now become gratefully a part of. her story starts to where...

She started a company in 1998 called Aging Wisely, which does geriatric care management. And that's kind of where I got my first foot in the door. I remember when I was 16, she'd make me drive around every year and deliver marketing material or Christmas gifts to referral sources and stuff like that. So that was kind of my first touch into the field.

And then when I went to high school, I went to Palm Harbor University High School and they have a program called the Medical Magnet Program and that's what I was in. And that's actually one of the tracks that I went down was to become a CNA. And if you asked me probably at that time, 16, 17, 18, do you want to be in home care? It was a hard no.

Miriam Allred (01:32.993)
17, 18, and if you want to be in home care, it's hard now. But I went away to college, went to business school, went to southeastern, and I had a great summer internship and a great job kind of my junior and senior year there working at Intrepid.

Alex Chamberlain (01:36.878)
But I went away to college, went to business school, Nova Southeastern, and I had a great summer internship and a great job, kind of my junior and senior year there working at Intrepid Power Boats doing boat sales. And I absolutely loved it. I had a blast working at the Fort Lauderdale Boat Show, the Miami Boat Show, and really thought that kind of boat sales was going to be for me. But I graduated in 2008. So as we all kind of remember the market crash, the big recession, the housing recession,

Miriam Allred (01:57.442)
sales was going to be for me but I graduated in 2008 so as we all kind of remember the market crash, the big recession, the housing recession, know all those famous movies like The Big Short and things like that so nobody was buying beds so there was no opportunity for me after college to kind of pursue that career.

Alex Chamberlain (02:06.862)
know, all those famous movies like the Big Short and things like that. So nobody was buying boats. So there was no opportunity for me after college to kind of pursue that career. So I do what every other kid does calls home and says, what now mom? And that's kind of where she's like, Hey, I have this care management business. It's called aging wisely. We refer out a lot of home care and we just haven't really found an organization that we're comfortable partnering with that can provide again, really consistent caregivers.

Miriam Allred (02:19.489)
home and says no, home. And that's kind of where she's like, I have this care management business, it's called HG Wisely, we refer out a lot of home care, and we just haven't really found an organization that we're comfortable partnering with that can provide, again, really consistent caregivers at the quality that we want. And why don't you come back and help me get this thing off the ground? And I kind of laugh.

Alex Chamberlain (02:36.752)
at the quality that we want and why don't you come back and help me get this thing off the ground? And I kind of laughed and said, you know, I do have that CNA experience. So why not? And so moved back to Clearwater here and helped to get Easy Living. That's what we call it. It was two separate companies at the time and helped get Easy Living off the ground. So I was the scheduler. I was the backup caregiver.

Miriam Allred (02:44.705)
said, you know, I do have that CNA experience. So why not? moved back to Clearwater here and helped get Easy Living, that's what we call it, it two separate companies at the time, and helped get Easy Living off the ground. So I was the scheduler, I was the backup caregiver, and pretty much every position within the company and just continued to grow that organization. So it's been fun.

Alex Chamberlain (03:02.907)
and pretty much every position within the company and just continued to grow that organization. So it's been fun.

Miriam Allred (03:11.069)
Amazing. What a great, great story. And you're talking about these two businesses coming together. So both the care management business and the home care business. Talk a little bit about your business model holistically. Like what is kind of the setup, the payers, the revenue streams today?

Alex Chamberlain (03:28.726)
Yeah, so to kind of keep that...

evolution of the company going forward. We just continued to grow. And with that, we had more shared team members, more shared employees. So when it came time to, you know, shared biller, right? Care management and home care, two different softwares, two different QuickBooks, two different tax returns, two different benefit programs. It just seemed where it made sense to kind of blend the organizations as one. And that's really what we did in 2016 is we kind of merged under one brand. call it Easy Living. You're experts.

and Aging Wisely and then that's kind of where a lot of our growth journey really moved forward. So we opened up our second office in 2017 out in Pasco County and a little bit of that thesis there for our expansion was we were primarily private pay and then in 2015 I got into the Medicaid game and so that's where we started. We got our Medicaid approval number and we started securing those contracts for the county and my thesis was

the growth strategy was if I could open up in a new county.

leverage the Medicaid referrals and I reached to about 750, 800 hours per week pending your reimbursement rates. I was able to afford a sales rep and then grow the private pay side of the business. So that was kind of the growth strategy that we've been implementing from there. And once when you get a sales rep, you're able to grow the private pay, you're able to the care management and we were able to expand. And so that's kind of what we did in 2017. And then in 2019, I got my license to open up in Hillsborough.

Alex Chamberlain (05:04.76)
County. I remember it November 2019, signed my lease January 1, just wanted to get through the holidays. And then of course, you know what happens in February 2020, you know, COVID hit the world lockdown. And so that was a little bit of a rough start. So just signed a lease and all that overhead just to not really open it for the year. And of course, then after that, there was the Medicaid moratorium. So there goes my thesis, because Medicaid is not accepting any new providers. And but nevertheless, we worked through that.

in 2020 and kind of through really 2022, we really kind of got off the ground there. And then it was 2024, I was presented with an opportunity to acquire, do my first acquisition in Polk County, where another family business reached out to me that was doing care management. And so we were able to acquire them, they were called All About Aging, and we were able to acquire them in Polk County. And so we've expanded out to there. So for us,

Miriam Allred (05:41.818)
just 2024, I was presented with an opportunity to acquire, my first acquisition in Polk County, where another family business reached out to me that was doing care management. And so we were able to acquire them, they were called All About Aging, and we were able to acquire them in Polk County, and so we've expanded out to there.

Alex Chamberlain (06:04.784)
in our payer sources. have care management. We have home care.

And we're servicing that in Pinellas, Pasco, Hillsborough and Polk, kind of the Tampa Bay regions, what I like to say. And then most recently, as of last year in 2024, I got my license to do skilled nursing and that's just in Pinellas and Pasco right now. So it kind of falls in line with what our kind of mission and vision is. So our vision is just to help as many families as we possibly can, guiding them through their aging journey. And then with our mission, it's just to provide the care and resources to prevent falls and hospitalization.

by keeping you aging wisely. And we do that through our service lines, which is care management, home care, and skilled nursing. So we're able to help you wherever you need help on your aging journey.

Miriam Allred (06:50.626)
That was a great summary that almost sounded scripted but I'll let everyone know that was not scripted but clearly you've done that a time or two which was amazing just a few times. Well awesome that was a great summary I know we could kind of dive

Alex Chamberlain (06:54.883)
Thanks.

A few times, yes.

Miriam Allred (07:03.735)
into all different topics. I love that you've grown up with this business. The really neat thing that I'm just speaking out loud as an observation, I'm interviewing more people that have kind of grown up in home care. And I don't think that was really the case maybe 10, 20, 30 years ago, but there's a lot of people that are kind of starting their careers in home care, which I love to hear. And I think you're good example of that of it just kind of happened that way. But here you are years and years later and you know really the ins and outs of home care. And so

When we first met, asked you, of all your experience, what are some of your areas of expertise or areas of passions? And I thought it was interesting. The two things that you said, one was the intake call. You love just hearing that initial call from families or the clients themselves or that adult daughter. You love just kind of that initial interaction. And then the second thing you said that I thought was interesting is you have this strength and ability to speak caregiver. so

Alex Chamberlain (07:44.632)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Chamberlain (07:58.094)
No.

Miriam Allred (07:58.934)
You and I kind of talked through that and that's what I latched onto. So that's what I want to talk about today is just how you as this owner operator kind of CEO role still have these really deep connections and relationships and ability to speak with the caregivers. And so my first question is just around what does that mean to you? You you said to me, I can speak caregiver, I can kind of speak their language in your own terms. How would you describe that or define it?

Alex Chamberlain (08:26.766)
I mean, it's probably because I've done it and I feel like I have and probably had all the same fears that they have when doing their job. Like I remember the first time again, I mean, I always joke when my now wife, but when we were dating, she always wondered why I kind of bailed on New Year's Eve or bailed on Christmas Eve dinner with her family. And it's like, cause that's when we had call-outs and I had to go in and work. It wasn't by design, but I remember knocking on that door

and being like, what am I supposed to do here? And then I'd look at a care plan and all it gave me was like the client's history. And again, don't get me wrong, medical history is important and things like that, but that's where I'm like, this doesn't help me do my job. And so those wheels kind of started turning for me early on of, okay, what is it that caregivers really want in the home?

And then kind of diving into some of my core values, which we'll circle back to, but it's like, how do we set them up for success when starting that shift? Right. Because, you know, we hire introverts, we hire extroverts. We are people that have been caregiving for 10 years, caregivers that have been fresh out of school. So how do you build your business to be consistent? It's one of our core values time and time again. And so what I've kind of changed that tune on with the care plan is I believe the care plan is a job description. It's not just a client.

Miriam Allred (09:36.098)
So how do you build your business to be consistent to one of our core values time and time again? And so what I've kind of changed that tune on with the care plan is I believe the care plan is a job description. It's not just a client repository of static data such as their medical conditions, their allergies, and things like that. So it's really a job description and then what I really wanted to have in the home is really what is it that you want to have done?

Alex Chamberlain (09:51.786)
repository of static data such as their medical conditions, their allergies, and things like that. So it's really a job description. And then what I really wanted to have in the home is really, what is it that you want to have done? And then I'm more than happy to do it, but I just need to know what you want. And what we found in home care is oftentimes individuals' first time to home care.

It's their first experience. And then same with our care partner, even if they've been a caregiver for 20 years, 10 years, five years, it's their first time being in that home. And one of my favorite lines in this business is there's no such thing as a normal family, but every family thinks what they do is normal. And that's what we walk into every single day in somebody's home, right? It's not an office environment, but it's an office to that caregiver, but not to that family member. So it's really guiding that family member when you're enrolling that customer, which is why I love doing the intake calls.

just starting to set those expectations and see where their head's at and really figure out what they want. Because then that falls to my next question, which is, how do you want us to do it? And sometimes that how is not safe. So we want to have that conversation, whether it's transferring or something like that, or here's how they like to have it done.

We need to set those expectations. Sometimes it's housekeeping, right? And they want you to get on your hands and knees and scrub floors with a toothbrush and bleach. So we got to set expectations around that, but it's mainly looking at, they have the tools necessary in order for our caregiver to be successful in that house? So some easy light stuff, right? Like if they want us to do housekeeping more than happy, happy to show me where you keep your housekeeping tools at, like how's the vacuum cleaner? Is it that 1987 or vacuum cleaner or is it a $500 Dyson? And then does our

care partner, caregiver know how to work that. One of my favorite lines when we work with caregivers and I orientate them to homes is going through with families of this doesn't look like mine at home, can you show me how to use it? Because every dishwasher is different.

Miriam Allred (11:36.56)
partner caregiver know how to work that. One of my favorite lines when we work with caregivers and I orientate them to homes is going through with families of this doesn't look like mine at home can you show me how to use it because every dishwasher is different every washer and dryer is different and to have our care partners have these expectations from the family of what do mean you can't do this right or if we start opening up drawers and stuff like that just to look to where we put away the clothes

Alex Chamberlain (11:50.774)
Every washer and dryer is different. And to have our care partners have these expectations from the family of, what do mean you can't do this right? Or if we start opening up drawers and stuff like that, just to look to where we put away the clothes, all of a sudden that caregiver snooping around the house. Right? So there's some of those misimplied things. And that's kind of where we've just started to break down of like, what do want us to do? How do you want us to do it? So we could set those expectations. When do you want us to have it done by? So maybe there's some time constraints there, right?

Miriam Allred (12:04.225)
All of sudden that caregiver's snooping around the house. So there's some of those misimplied things and that's kind where we've just started to break down of like, what do you want us to do? How do you want us to do it so we can set those expectations? When do you want us to have it done by? So maybe there's some time constraints there. Like again, Client X has dialysis at three. So we need to make sure that she's dressed, she's eaten, she's taken her meds, she's used the restroom before we transport her to dialysis for a four hour wait.

Alex Chamberlain (12:20.718)
Like again, Client X has dialysis at three. So we need to make sure that she's dressed, she's eaten, she's taken her meds, she's used the restroom before we transport her to dialysis for a four hour wait, right? And then it's why do you want us to do it that way?

And what we found is that really helps us with our compliance with our caregivers on getting them to do things consistently for the client. And that why may be as simple as some of the heartwarming stuff that we deal with. Like this is how the husband did it every single day. And now that he's passed away, this is just that little moment that we can help the wife be a little more comfortable without her husband there or to, like you don't go in the dining room table ever. Like you don't eat there, you don't sit there. Everything's done at the kitchen table.

Miriam Allred (13:03.073)
you don't eat there, you don't sit there, everything's done at the kitchen table. So it's like, okay, cool, that room's off limits, now we have. And it's kind of just been through a lot of trial and error, working with our clients, working with our caregivers, and my own mistakes, that we've been able to, I would say, focus on caregiver first mindset of go into that home and you try to do a great job. It's extremely hard.

Alex Chamberlain (13:06.384)
So it's like, okay, cool, that room's off limits, now we know. And it's kind of just been through a lot of trial and error, working with our clients, working with our caregivers and my own mistakes, that we've been able to, I would say, focus on caregiver first mindset of go into that home and you try to do a great job. It's extremely hard.

Miriam Allred (13:26.299)
This sounds like the beauty and curse of home care is it's all customization, it's all personalization, but how do you do that at scale? How do you repeat this process over and over when the client needs and the caregiver needs are so unique every single time? But you're referencing this, your approach to care plans. I think in a lot of home care businesses, it's very rigid. It's based around the ADLs and IADLs. It's kind of this

Like you mentioned earlier, it's like a summary of the client's history and maybe a few tasks that are so generic, but your approach to the care plan is way more personalized, which I love. And so you're kind of spelling out like your own formula for the care plan. And I know you're referencing it already, but can you share even more in depth, like what your care plan looks like and what that process is with the client? And then we'll bring in how do you incorporate the caregiver into that

conversation as well. just explain the care plan a little bit more and maybe the evolution that you were talking about.

Alex Chamberlain (14:26.124)
Yeah, so what's funny is I agree that every client is unique, but kind of what we do is always the same for every client. Cause one in Florida, at least, were licensed by the state. So by law, can only provide again, ADLs, IADLs, types of services, right? So then the differentiation really comes in the how.

And that's where I really like to walk with the client. So again, as I train our team, again, train our nurses, when you do an intake with a client, do the assessment in the home, I love to walk around the home because that's where you can really see to where, where does the trash go out?

when we take it out at the end of each shift. Like, is it a bigger can in the garage? Is it an apartment building down the hall and there's a chute? Is it a condo complex or actually got to walk to like a dumpster 30 feet? I mean, everything's a little bit different. So we kind of done that mantra to where when we do the intake, it's show me around your home. And we usually build the care plan that way because it's been a great way for us to set expectations along that journey. And again, small steps.

that we've all run into in the home care business. Like this item looks a little broken or when the client says, yeah, to get my washer turned on, you kind of got to jiggle this button a little bit. It's like, OK, the odds of our caregiver coming in for the first time and it's going to master that jiggle appropriately is not going to probably be successful. Right? It'll happen after two or three weeks when we get the hang of it. But same thing goes when we see the bathrooms. Like I have to see the bathroom. If we're going to be doing bathing,

Miriam Allred (15:55.298)
Same thing goes when we see the bathrooms. Like I have to see the bathroom. If we're gonna be doing bathing, can two people fit in there? I know in Florida, for example, where we live, majority of our homes were built in the 1950s. They're very small bathrooms, very tight bathrooms. So again, depending on individual size, two people, what have you, walker, maybe a wheelchair, like it's just not gonna happen. And we need to train our care partner to set them up for success on how to successfully transfer this client in and out of the tub or what have you.

Alex Chamberlain (16:00.302)
Can two people fit in there? I know in Florida, for example, where we live, majority of our homes were built in the 1950s. They're very small bathrooms, very tight bathrooms. So again, pending individual size, two people, what have you, walker, maybe a wheelchair, like it's just not gonna happen. And we need to train our care partner to set them up for success on how to successfully transfer this client in and out of the tub or what have you. So for me, it really starts with, I kind of already know what you're gonna get.

because by law that's what we have to provide. It's really leaning into that how, when, and then why do want us to do it that way? And that's been good for us. And then when we start that first shift, we always go back out there and we orientate our caregiver to the house. And I kind of have this concept in my mind that we call show and tell.

to where I want the caregiver to show me what they can do naturally and my goal is to tell them great job because when I leave that house I want that caregiver to have so much confidence that they're a great match for that client that they feel good. I don't want to tell them what to do. I don't want to show them what to do because then when I leave they're going be like uh-oh what do I do? Alex isn't here so it's really focusing on hey here's the kitchen I'm going to go over the care plan with you here's what the client wants I kind of want the dishes put away or here's here's

what you need to do to make a turkey sandwich, here's where the meds are kept. Now show me how you would do this in real time. And I just watch our caregiver work. And then when they do a great job, which 99 % of the time they do, I say, hey, look, that was awesome. You got this. Checkbox this. Let's go to the next room. So we're like, OK, cool. Let's really look at the bedroom here. How would you position Mrs. Smith and get her out of bed? So show me what you would do.

And then we check that box. So I kind of go room by room and just let them know that they're doing a great job on every single thing. And that's really what has helped again, make that match stick faster than just kind of, again, my experience when I was kind of doing it, just knocking on a door. Hey, I'm Alex with Easy Living. Like I'm here from eight to eight to one. Like what do want me to do? Right? There's a little bit more structure and a little bit more routine there.

Miriam Allred (17:50.754)
and just let them know that they're doing a great job on every single thing. And that's really what has helped, again, make that match stick faster than just kind of, again, my experience when I was kind of doing it, just knocking on a door. Hey, I'm Alex with Easy Learning. I'm here from eight to one. What do want me to do?

Miriam Allred (18:15.465)
I don't know if I missed it or correct me if I'm wrong. That experience with the caregiver is happening on the first shift or did you say that's like a couple of weeks later or what? Yeah, what does the first shift look like? then that is the first shift. Okay.

Alex Chamberlain (18:24.02)
No, shift. That is that first shift. We really orientate you to the home. Yep. And then as I always tell our team, because some of the pushback, get, well, Alex, what do we do at an 8 PM shift? You don't have to be there at 8 PM to train. You can train at 5 PM, 2 PM, 1 AM. It doesn't matter because the expectation is just walking through that house and getting them really comfortable doing everything that the client expects.

Miriam Allred (18:49.993)
Okay. And you have obviously done a lot of orientating over your years. You're almost talking as if you still do some of that. Do you still go out sometimes or how often or no?

Alex Chamberlain (19:00.078)
I I do for trainings and sometimes I still like it, right? Like it's kind of the old like Starbucks analogy where it's like they want everybody to be able to make coffee. Like I still believe in that principle. again, don't knock on wood here what's on my desk. I haven't worked a shift since 2015. so that selfie I took and sent it to my wife.

But yeah, I it's just what I love doing, right? So I love getting to know our caregivers, knowing their strengths, because I believe there's, like one of the other sayings I say is there's love out there for everyone. And not every caregiver you bring in or hire is gonna be great for every client, but they are great for someone.

And so we really try to get to know our caregivers. What is it that you need maybe from an income level standpoint, from a location hours and days standpoint, what type of care are you really good at? What do you want to do? And I have so many caregivers that are awesome with like Alzheimer's and dementia patients. But if you ask them to do an outing with a client and take them to a restaurant, I'm like, no, no, no, that's not their skill set. But you do have kicking, biting and heavy dementia, heavy sundowning.

it.

I would send them all the time. Like they are my go-tos, right? Cause you know, some of the expressions you get from clients, Alex, send me a caregiver who would you would put with your mom. And I'm like, well, my mom doesn't have what your mom has, but I can tell you like with what your mom has, I got the perfect caregiver for you. And here's why. So we always staff on kind of those skills and that availability, but it's just something that obviously, I mean, I'm passionate about it. You can probably hear it. I just, I love doing it and I love this business.

Miriam Allred (20:27.457)
But I can tell.

Miriam Allred (20:32.417)
And here's why. So we always staff on kind of those skills and that availability, but it's just something that obviously I'm passionate about it, probably hearing. just, I love doing it and I love this business. Yeah. And the reason I ask, you know, if you're still doing it as an owner, as a CEO, your time is valuable. You're wearing a lot of different hats. You have your priorities, but you still are so connected to the clients and the caregivers and part of

doing that is still taking the intake calls, still going out and orientating caregivers in the field. That's how you maintain this pulse on the business, but really on the people and the individual relationships. And so I think, you you being able to speak caregiver, you're still very involved in the day to day in a good way. You know, you know yourself and you know your boundaries, but you also know what you're passionate about.

Alex Chamberlain (21:18.638)
And selfishly, it makes me feel great. Like I love doing it. Like it makes me happy.

Miriam Allred (21:23.571)
Yeah, and that's a good reason to keep doing it. You were mentioning and talking about your core values. You have shared with me your core values, which really drive home and dictate everything that you do day to day and how your people operate and how they think and how they execute. Can you speak to those core values? I think they're really powerful and want to share those with everyone, if you're willing.

Alex Chamberlain (21:45.782)
Yeah, for me, everything, I'm kind of one of those business guys that everything resorts back to like the mission and the core values. So like starting with the mission, that's how we determine if they're our right fit client. So if they don't need care or resources to prevent falls and hospitalizations, we're probably not going to do that case well, right? Like if you just want housekeeping once a week.

That's really not our core competency here at Easy Living. Like we're really good at providing care. Again, ADL care, hands-on care. Now we understand the importance of housekeeping right, and that's kind of where that why comes in. So we'll oftentimes have to share with a lot of our caregivers like, hey, know, Mrs. Smith has COPD. If she vacuums, she can easily like get fainted and fall. And that's why it's important that we do. And also slight judgment on our customer side.

Housekeeping is the perception of our services, right? Nobody's going to call mom and say, let me tell you about the bath I had today. Like it was amazing. No, the daughter's going to show up and see how the house looks, right? So again, it's the bed made, kitchen look wiped down. So we know there's some of that judgment there that we play to, but starting with the mission. So are they a right fit client? And then we start making those decisions through our core values. So for us, it's consistency.

Foundation of home care, right? Being where you're supposed to be when you're supposed to be there. So we got to check those boxes. And for us, that's really how you deliver great care. Like if I show up inconsistently with a client, I'm never going to know if they're having a good day or a bad day. I'm never going to know if I should report a change in condition because I don't really know if it's a change. Right? So how can we be proactive again, with our mission statement of preventing that fall or hospitalization if we don't have the same care partner in there Monday through Friday, again, whatever that schedule cadence

is and then administratively we see that as every shift matters and every visit makes a difference and we need to believe that. So if caregiver calls out it's like whoa whoa whoa that client needs us today our visits make a difference we need to get somebody back out there and then our caregivers know that too to where hey consistency is important reliability is important and again we get it everybody's gonna get sick everybody's gonna have a bad day and so forth but can you be consistent?

Miriam Allred (23:53.844)
where consistency is important, reliability is important. And again, we get it, everybody's gonna get sick, everybody's gonna have a bad day and so forth, but can you be consistent with that? And then the second one we always focus on, which is kind of like a little bit of a cascading ladder, is set yourself up for success. So if you can't be consistent with it, are you really setting yourself up for success? And that answer is probably no. So again, role play example there, right?

Alex Chamberlain (24:03.76)
consistent with that. And then the second one we always focus on, which is kind of like a little bit of a cascading ladder, is set yourself up for success. So if you can't be consistent with it, are you really setting yourself up for success? And that answer is probably no. So again, role play example there, right? Like I've had clients, for example, yeah, this was one we had probably a couple months ago. The client really wanted us to make such a unique smoothie.

Miriam Allred (24:23.747)
I

Alex Chamberlain (24:33.109)
And I'm like, the odds of us doing this consistently is probably not that high. Can we negotiate something else for breakfast? And then we did, and then we were able to do tropical smoothie, which, you know, is very consistent on how they make their smoothies. Right. So it's just kind of setting us up for success from that standpoint. are you, we had a client that wanted us to work from like 6 a.m. until 11 a.m. And it's like, I just don't know that many caregivers that are willing to get up at 5 15.

to be at work at six. So again, are you really setting yourself up for success when you're enrolling customers or when you're creating care plans or when you're doing those matches? So that's super important to us. And then that kind of cascades to the third, which is setting clear and defined expectations. So everybody has to know what success is in that they have to know when they're doing a good job.

So that's really important to us, whether it's top of the company or with our care partners, everybody has to know what a good job looks like. And you do that by setting expectations. And then that kind of rolls to our fourth, is provide feedback early and often. I've never met somebody that says, I can't wait to do a bad job today at work. Like that person does not exist, but we make mistakes every single day. Right? So again, it goes back to, I know what success looks like? And then when you're giving feedback, it's a lot

Miriam Allred (25:44.042)
I've never met somebody that says I can't wait to do a bad job today at work. Like that person does not exist. But we make mistakes every single day, right? That again goes back to do I know what success looks like? And then when you're giving feedback, it's a lot like driving a car. You're constantly touching that wheel. You're constantly staying on the road. You don't wait till you drive into a

Alex Chamberlain (25:58.216)
like driving a car. You're constantly touching that wheel. You're constantly staying on the road. You don't wait till you drive into a ditch and start giving feedback. So sooner and smaller when it comes to feedback is always better than later and larger. So we've developed our processes and systems to always be chasing feedback, whether that's from our caregivers or from our clients, from our referral sources, from our families. We're extremely proactive with our approach because it's offense, offense, offense. And then I've always believed in home care.

No news is bad news.

And assumptions are even worse because I've never had a good assumption. And as I kind of joke with my team, I'm really not good at gambling. So I've never been good at guessing. So let's just call the client and ask, or let's just call that care partner and ask them to see if they really like working this shift. So we kind of have some structure there to build feedback into our process. And then last but not least is over communicate. We're in the people business. And so I always kind of share this story from my dad, which he

Miriam Allred (26:31.355)
and assumptions are even worse because I've never had a good assumption. And as I kind of joke with my team, I'm really not good at gambling, so I've never been good at guessing. So let's just call the client and ask. Or let's just call that care partner and ask them to see if they really like working this shift. So we kind of have some structure there to build feedback into our process. And then last but not least is over-communicating. We're in the people business. And so I always kind of share this story from my dad, which he

Alex Chamberlain (27:00.938)
me which I laughed at so he was a trivia night table six to eight folks and it was like the final question and his team was gonna get first place because he knew the answer it was like name a food that doesn't expire and he's like I know this it's honey

And so going around the table, he like whispers to my mom, it's honey, it's honey. And they go around the table. And of course they needed like the full six points to be in first place. So of course everybody turns in their stuff, like my dad's table gets hit. Like three people wrote onion. And I'm like, how the hell did that happen? And so I share that story because one, I just think it's funny and I'm sad that he lost. You know, I was going to get a free dinner and maybe drinks, a nice little gift card. But, um.

That's the people game that we play.

And you can see the way if that message got lost and they're all in the same room, what do you think it happens when it goes from client to daughter to caregiver to scheduler to nurse to director of operations? And then we make a decision at team meeting and then it goes back down the value chain from like the nurse to the scheduler to the caregiver. And then the client, like that message is so muddied, right? So that's why we try to over communicate every

Miriam Allred (27:50.814)
And you can see where that message got lost and they're all in the same room. What do you think it happens when it goes from client, to daughter, to caregiver, to scheduler, to nurse, to director of operations and then.

Alex Chamberlain (28:20.368)
single thing that we do and obviously the old famous marketing line, you tell the group of people something seven times, half will say they heard it once. So we just got to really make sure that we're enlisting all those core values and then over communicating them every single day. And if you kind of feel like you're throwing up from saying it too much, you're almost there from saying it just the right amount.

Miriam Allred (28:41.313)
Okay, if anyone listening to this doesn't have their core values set, these are some of the best that I've heard, Alex. I'm not just saying that I actually believe that. I've read a lot of core values. I've worked for companies with a of core values. It's something I actually often ask these home care owners and businesses what their core values are. I love these ones and they resonate with me. I love the cascade that they flow, which helps them become easier to remember, but also they

they build on each other, which I think is really, really important and really good in this case. You were just saying this, how often you have to communicate and over communicate the core values. What does that actually look like for your office team? How are you getting them to live and breathe the core values continuously?

Alex Chamberlain (29:30.588)
painfully by living it myself and then using the core values in our words all the time. But I would say the big unlock that I've had with the core values that I've really given my team permission on, which I really feel like it's helped take hold is if you work the core values, I don't care what the result is.

So the chips are gonna fall where they fall. Because I know if you work the core values, you've done everything that you could've to set yourself up for success to deliver great care. And sometimes it still doesn't work that way. Like we've had plenty of times where again, we've worked our core values right, like great intake call, great assessment, families on board, we staff the caregiver, we double confirm with the caregiver and they didn't show up on the first shift. And it's like crap.

That was our first impression and now we're right at the door, right? As a team, we're disappointed, but you're not allowed to be mad.

And kind of there's no blame, right? Because we work the core values. What we have found is when we don't work the core values, we're really not setting ourselves up for the most success, right? Core value number two there. So that's where when we do have what we call care conflicts or any sort of issues with families, things of that nature, we actually kind of write it out with our core values. So it's like one, are we consistent on this case? So we'll pull up our scheduling software and we'll look at our colors and say like, hey, have we been green or do we got some oranges here? We got some maybe shifts that were left over.

things like that, like how consistent have we been? And then we'll have the discussion on number two, like do we set ourselves up for success? And they're like, no, like the caregiver I matched it with, it's like a 45 minute drive. So the odds of her for being on time consistently is just.

Alex Chamberlain (31:15.342)
not realistic because of the drive time, right? It's too far. So of course we're supposed to be there at eight because we're relieving the daughter to go to work. And when we show up at eight 15, eight 30, the daughter's now late for work and she's getting written up. So it's like, okay, do we either need to change the shift time to seven 30 to build in a little cushion there, or do we just need to find a caregiver that lives closer to that client's house? So that means do we need to recruit? So we're giving each other feedback. Maybe we're setting some expectations with the family. So that's kind of how we

Miriam Allred (31:41.718)
Maybe we're setting some expectations with the family. So that's kind of how we work it. So it's built into our team meeting that we cover each week. And then when we do our one-on-ones, it's built in that way to say, hey, how are we over communicating that? And then it's kind of the thing when everybody.

Alex Chamberlain (31:45.278)
work it so it's built into our team meeting that we cover each week and then when we do our one-on-ones it's built in that way to say hey how are we over communicating that and then

It's kind of the thing when everybody at the office makes fun of me for it, I feel like it's really starting to stick. And so that's where I kind of know I'm doing good when they're like, I know Alex roll the eyes all over communicate. I'm like, yeah, did you call? Did you text? Did you send an email? They're like, well, I left the voicemail. I'm like, how do know they listened? Let's call again. And they're like, okay, Alex.

Miriam Allred (32:11.797)
They're like, I left the voicemail. I'm like, how do you know they listen? Let's call again. We're going do it. Wow. Naturally, it trickles down to the caregiver, but I want to ask the same question. In orientation, you probably go over the core values. It sounds like maybe naturally your office team imparts the core values on the care partners, but how else are you driving these principles home to the care partners consistently over months and years?

Alex Chamberlain (32:41.166)
I mean, tough question to really kind of maybe pinpoint some specific actions. I mean, it's as far as like how we write the words in our care plan, right? Like we're very action oriented with how we write in our care plan, such as like, I hate the words, like occasionally check to see if the client's wet. Like that's not, that's not a job description written statement, right? It's more of like check every two hours for balance continents. Like if wet.

please change, like, are located in the closet outside the bathroom. Like, that's a great action-oriented care plan statement that I think, again, works the core values by setting the care partner for success, because when they see that as a task, they can really be like, okay, what is it that I need to do? Like, where are these depends located? There's no, occasionally check, which means I'll occasionally wait for the next person to come in and do it. So it's just kind of...

I don't know, inner DNA.

Miriam Allred (33:40.63)
I'm biased, I've worked for a scheduling software company and I'm not gonna lie, I've read a lot of care plans and exactly what you're saying happens way too often is it's vague, it's quick, it's check the box to make sure they have a care plan but it's not as thorough and as in depth as they need to be which comes back to setting up for success, setting your people up for success. If you're just checking the box, if you're doing things to do things, if you're doing it quick and rushed because it's the end of the day or it's Friday afternoon, it's like.

You're not setting your people up for success. So take the time and do it right and be consistent.

Alex Chamberlain (34:14.096)
yeah, we have so many different structures around that, right? Like some of our old adages is if it's a four hour shift, you should probably only have four tasks assigned.

to that case, because everything else is, you know, it's TLDR, too long didn't read. And now they're not following EVB compliance because I'm not wasting all my time doing that. So there's just a lot of type of stuff in there that how can we get this to write shorter, write more action oriented? How do you make it simpler? Again, my dad joke here, like we try to be easy living, not hard living. So that's kind of what we tell our clients, tell our care partners, like if it's work for you, then we're probably doing something wrong because it should just really

happen frictionlessly.

Miriam Allred (34:56.585)
And you know as well as I do, when you talk to these caregivers, they want more information. They want more rather than less. Give them, in my opinion, give them more. Give them too much and it's on them to consume it or not, but give them all the information that they need. Don't leave them guessing. I love what you said a few minutes ago about just assumptions. No one should be assuming anything at any point in time. That's you, the office, the care partners. There should be no assumptions. All the information should be out in the open on the table.

Alex Chamberlain (35:24.268)
And that's our over-communicate, right? So like when our scheduler staffs it, she'll read the care plan to the care partner. Hey, you feel comfortable doing this stuff? You comfortable working in this environment? Do these tasks sound scary to you? No, no, no, all good. Then our care director will probably double confirm, review it again. And then of course, obviously they the app where they can read the care plan through that way too, right? It sends some push notifications. And that's why we hedge again with showing up to the home to where we will actually walk you through that care plan and orientate you to that.

and of course we have a paper copy in our logbook, in the client's home as well. So that's kind of our over communication process to where I get it, they may not look at every item on the care plan on their mobile phone. Fine, here's how we set ourselves up for success to help hedge that.

Miriam Allred (36:10.741)
We're talking about all the things that you've done right and all the things that you've kind of smoothed out over the years, but I want to flip the script a little bit and talk about some of the hard lessons learned. And the first one that comes to mind is just some of the biggest gaps between the care partners out in the field and you as maybe the owner or kind of executive of the company. are some of those gaps? Again, maybe earlier on because you smoothed a lot of that out, but what are some of the biggest gaps that you've seen between the care partners out in the field and you?

in the office.

Alex Chamberlain (36:41.198)
I mean, I've made every mistake times 10, right? Like here's a funny story. I'll never laugh. I'll never not laugh at this. Like the team always gives me a hard time. So I remember scheduling my first orientation and I didn't know what I was doing. So I, you know, now I put an ad out, recruited, called folks, qualified so forth. And I remember one of the care partners, it was a mother daughter team that we were bringing on. And she's like, Alex, what do I wear to orientation?

I said, I don't know, dress like you're going to church. I thought that was a nice thing to say. I didn't understand until she showed up that in African-American churches, they wear the gowns, the hats, the full setup. And so when they walked through our office doors and that full getup, I'm like, my gosh.

not doing that again. And so it did take me a few iterations, believe it or not, just to say, wear scrubs like you would to work. And then I could see if your scrubs are clean, are they pressed, or do they have holes? And then let's get you another set of scrubs. But that surprisingly took me a long time to figure out. I did street wear for a while. Like, hey, it's your day off, wear whatever you want. And then learn a lot of lessons there. Like, don't sometimes have people wear whatever they wear at their couch on a Sunday afternoon, right? That may not be appropriate to show up in an office setting.

Miriam Allred (37:35.649)
If you're iteration-fool, you're not just to say, just wear scrubs like you would to work. And then I can see if your scrubs are clean, are they pressed, or do they have holes in them? then let's get you another set of scrubs. But that surprisingly took me a long time to figure out. I did streetwear for a while. Like, hey, it's your day off. Wear whatever you want. And then learned a lot of lessons there. don't sometimes have people.

Alex Chamberlain (38:02.454)
It's just through trial and error and then really getting that feedback from clients and asking those curious questions. And so it's just diving into like, why did you do that? Like a caregiver might've made us stick. Like here's one that we had, like she used her family's bleach solution one time, making it over a couch and slipped out of her hand and stained the entire couch.

and we had to buy a whole new couch. So that was really cool. So now it's like, okay, we don't use your family's favorite bleach recipe and just constant trial of error of stuff that we've done wrong time and time again. And I don't know if that answered it well, cause I probably can go on for hours of every mistake that we've ever made, but it's just painfully, sometimes financially not making those again.

Miriam Allred (38:49.825)
painfully, sometimes financially, not making those again. Yeah, a lot of great storytelling as well. I'm sure it would be so entertaining to hear all of these examples of just the little mishaps that happen here and there and the lessons learned. That's what shapes these core values. That's what shapes the consistency, the setting expectations, the over-communicating. It's like you learn the hard way too many times and it's like, how do we start to avoid this?

You've talked to a lot of caregivers obviously over your career. What's something from your perspective that they want to hear more of? What do they want to hear from you as the leader of the company that they're maybe not hearing enough?

Alex Chamberlain (39:32.748)
So what I try to be is just transparent to a fault and to really be as honest and upfront with them as possible. So like when we recruit, I tell them the truth. Like we always try to recruit for either two seats, right? Which is one, we need to fill for a client right now. And we're looking to kind of do an apples to apples match or we're, or we are building a bench, meaning, Hey, we don't have any cases right now, but we can put you on when we get call outs, but we are getting new clients every single week. And we would like.

to staff you for that. So it's being really honest with where we're at from a company. And then two, what I really try to do is get to know them. What is it that you really want? Because I believe at the foundation of all jobs, right? You got to go to the root principle. I'm asking you for your time and talent and for that I have to pay you money.

Like that's the root of the exchange. And if I'm able to get you on consistent work, then I'm able to move you to kind of that next level of trust, which is cool. You're probably invested in me and now I'm invested in you. Meaning we might've had a client pass away and we got you on another shift. So we were able to keep your hours up when the client went to the hospital or passed away. You didn't lose your income. So I just always believe that income is really the most important thing in jobs because we don't work for free, but that's what our caregivers need.

to eat, pay their bills and stuff like that. And then I've tried to just remember to myself that I know caregivers have oftentimes called out, no call no shows, we're not immune to that too, but if you flip that coin on the other side, we do the same thing to them. So like when we have a client go into the hospital, it's like, hey, I don't have work for you today, you're not going in. Their income just dropped.

Last time I checked, it's really hard when you're in that variable cycle of income of, why do you expect loyalty in return? Right?

Alex Chamberlain (41:30.794)
So I just try to be honest and build as much of a relationship with them. And I've just trained our team to help do that too, because as I like to say, our door at Easy Living is always open. Caregivers can come and go. I get it. If we don't have work for you right now and you need to go join our competitor down the street, I'm fine with that. I want to do what's best for you and you need 28 hours a week. I was only offering you 12. I would love for you to supplement maybe somewhere else, but if you couldn't get that and got one client and got 28 hours, I'm happy.

for you. Now I'm gonna keep marketing you, I'm gonna keep reaching out to you because when I have that great case I'd love for you to come back, right? But I've had so many of our care partners, they've been with me for 15 years, 12 years, 10 years because they might have gone away for three or four months and then they've come back. They might have taken a client private and did a private gig for a little bit off care.com or something, that client moves to their next level of care and then they come back. So I really try to get to know our caregivers at that level of, hey,

Where are you at personally? Do you have kids? Do you live in a home with family? Is it multi-generational? Are you a caregiver yourself or a loved one? Like what type of hours do you really need? Do you need help maybe filling out any government assistance forms? Do you have any requirements that we can help you with on that end? And just really getting to know where they at in their stage in life and can we help them during that moment that they're with us?

Sometimes we can, sometimes we can't.

Miriam Allred (42:59.105)
sometimes we can. I love that one of your core values is around feedback and I like the way that you break that down which is early and often. How are you collecting feedback routinely from your care partners? Are you using a survey company? Have you built something kind of a process in-house or how are you collecting feedback?

Alex Chamberlain (43:17.782)
It's in house—so, we do it right after what we call first shifts and then pending your hours and then pending changes. Like there's some variables that proactively trigger our outreaches. But what we really try to confirm is do you like working for that client? Like

Do you enjoy it or does the client just not your good fit? Do you have all the tools that you need to do your job? The number one we always see is no, we're low on gloves and stuff like that, right? So we try to get our clients to sign up for like Amazon subscribe and save and then like set it and forget it with gloves. Chuck's depends like just shows up at the house. That's great. And then how are the hours? How's the drive? Right? We see this a lot when we start cases in summertime, right? There's no school traffic. There's no buses on the road, but now when schools back

up in session, now our care partner is late every single day. And it's because they're stuck in school zones and stuff like that. So that may change and then their life may change. So maybe they got married and now they have a dual income and they don't need this type of work. Right. Or it's holiday time. Amazon comes knocking and they offer you a $2,000 bonus to join Amazon and help deliver packages instead of join us. Right. So we have different trigger setups to help do that outreach, but we really

try to ask like is this case still the one for you?

Miriam Allred (44:40.353)
I might be putting you on the spot, but can you share what those triggers are? If it's first shift after two weeks, 90 days, can you share what some of those triggers are?

Alex Chamberlain (44:47.885)
yeah.

Definitely first shift. know in the first two weeks we over communicate pending the case. Sometimes that's daily. Sometimes we kind of, again, the team's empowered to like Alex, I'm coming across as annoying. I rather not do that. And then it might be every other day, but the first two weeks we know is when we're most at risk to get fired, whether that's from the caregiver side or from the client side. And so we really want to work out those kinks because we've all done it from intake call to actually start of care. It's completely changed.

night and day because you kind of learn what you want that we know over the first two weeks you kind of learn what you really want and so we got to be adaptive to that and then if you are kind of if you're hundred and sixty eight hour like a 24-7 case we essentially talk to every caregiver at least weekly but it kind of takes us like sometimes a month to get through to that and then if kind of your 90 hours a week we probably talk to you twice

a month depending again what I would say are red flag issues which means caregiver called out whether again normal or

not appropriate, right? If there was any sort of service interruption, that would trigger a phone call. If the client canceled for whatever reason, daughter came in to visit, doctor's appointment, something like that, that would trigger a phone call and even sometimes a visit, especially if it's a doctor's appointment because now that might mean a care plan change. So is there something that the doctor wants you to be mindful of that we can help you and achieve that goal to help prevent that fall or hospitalization? And then if it's kind of 40 hours a week, 20 hours a week,

Alex Chamberlain (46:25.128)
that might just be naturally like a monthly on the client side and then same thing monthly on the care partner side unless there's a call out that would trigger a proactive phone call to say hey like everything good you're still happy with this case we saw that you needed time off on Tuesday and just to really dive deeper into why.

Miriam Allred (46:44.187)
You mentioned that a lot of your care partners have been with you for a long time, maybe years and years. It's a common pitfall for the people that have been with you for a long time to have maybe less check-ins or less interactions with them, or maybe they feel like they don't need to keep responding to the survey because they're consistent and business as usual.

What are you doing, if anything, to really be aware of that group that's been with you for a long time to make sure that they don't fall by the wayside or they're, you know, like quote unquote forgotten about because they're so consistent and they're so good.

Alex Chamberlain (47:16.588)
You know, it's funny, it's super hard and we've probably been a little lax on that ourselves, because obviously the squeaky wheel gets the oil, right? So kind of what we're doing is we're updating our scorecards to where we kind of are able to track our care partners performance within our system. So everybody that's kind of green is what we call good. We got to make sure that I'll probably split it up between two team members, but we got to call five a week. So we just got to just.

hey, show me that you've done at least one a day, and then I'll see if we're able to hit 100 % of those people maybe within a month. But I wanna make sure that we're reaching out to them because yeah, you get distracted by the 20 % and you forget that 80 % of your clients, your team, your referral sources, like they're awesome and they love you.

Miriam Allred (48:04.225)
Yeah, I worry sometimes that we're not talking enough about that. I've interviewed and talked to a lot of caregivers over this past year and that's a frequent occurrence. They say, I've been with this company for two years, three years, four years and they don't talk to me a whole lot. I'm consistent, I'm reliable, I'm showing up, I'm providing great care, but the office, the company has kind of forgot about me and so they want to feel recognized and appreciated and so they leave and they go somewhere else and that's...

sad, you know, that's a shame. That's the last thing that you want to happen. And so it's good to hear you say that even you're thinking about that and refocusing on that because you've seen some of that it sounds like.

Alex Chamberlain (48:41.904)
yeah, I mean that's right up there with the assumption, Like you assume that the client's happy because the care partner's showing up, you don't need to manage it right on the care coordination side. You assume the care partner's happy, but that's when they both run away from you and they have a private relationship and they left you. So it's like, okay, we can't have that happen.

Miriam Allred (49:02.235)
You are big on feedback and I'm sure over the years you've gotten a lot of, I don't know, eye-opening feedback from both the office and the care partners. Can you think back to a specific piece of feedback that you've gotten from a care partner that changed your mindset, that changed the way you lead, that changed the way you look at home care? Can you think of maybe a specific piece of feedback that's really changed your mind or changed your perspective?

Alex Chamberlain (49:28.126)
There's so much like Lead with empathy like again, no call no show doesn't mean you're terminated for me Like it's probably some of that type of stuff to where when you really get to know what they're going through it's kind of

I don't know, made me a little more patient, less harsh, right? Less like, how dare you do that, right? Or it's like if they slept on a night shift, like it doesn't mean that they're fired, right? You're probably not working nights, but you just never know what's going on in their personal life. And so I try to just, and it was probably through some of that feedback where it's like, Alex, you don't get what I have to do to like live.

And it's like you try living on an hourly wage. So that's why I was kind of using that example before with No Call No Shows, where it's like we do it to our care partners too. When we have a client go into the hospital, we just cut them off, right? Like their income's not guaranteed. And so I just try to always keep myself in that seat. And that was really from feedback, probably sometimes to a fault, right? Where it is like, Alex, how many like chances are you going to give this care partner?

And that's where it's like, okay, so I have had to like step out of some of that sometimes because I'm like, you know, maybe this type of client would be a better fit for them, right? Because I believe there is love out there for everyone, but.

I just, I mean, just imagine being in a caregiver's shoes. Like you have no idea. Well, one, the principles of home care, our clients are usually in kind of in their fourth quarter of life. So you know that they will pass away or move to another level of care at some point. So your income is extremely volatile.

Alex Chamberlain (51:08.598)
You don't know what the client is gonna maybe fire you for because they might have some cognitive challenges or maybe it's just a bad day and you didn't wipe down the counter right. So they're gonna let you go. Like that's just stuff is insane to me. And so.

Just I can't even fathom like living like that. Like it's just hard. Like I need again, some of these core values are my personality disease too of like I need consistency. So like I need that structure for my own life. But I really just try to empathize where the care partner's at and where they're at in their journey. And if I could support them through it, I can. And if I can't, that's okay too.

But yeah, would say that's kind of the feedback that I get. The joke we do is, you know, it is my favorite F word. So feedback's right up there, right behind food and fun. But it's, you just kind of, I don't know, going on a rant there, so I'll stop.

Miriam Allred (51:59.202)
you

Miriam Allred (52:05.321)
No, that was great. It sounds like you are still trying to find the balance maybe of empathy and processes and order. I think it's great that you put yourself in the shoes of the caregivers and that's how you lead. You lead with empathy, but as the owner, as the one in charge, you also have to be the hammer sometimes and be the law and make sure that things maintain a certain order.

How are you working personally to kind of strike that balance and what does that look like for you?

Alex Chamberlain (52:40.018)
From the business side, I would say first comes first. You got to protect the margin. As the old saying goes, the mission's in the margin. So we just really got to make sure that structurally, are you pricing your services right? Are you paying your people right?

just kind of going through those core principles, right? Nobody works for free. So obviously I have that in the back of my mind, like, hey, how are we doing financially? How's our collections? How are our contracts doing with Medicaid on that side? Like, cause you know, if you don't maintain your credentials that hold payments could be held back and stuff like that, which puts you in a real cashflow crunch. So yeah, you kind of do that. But again, I still work the core values through that, right? So am I setting myself up for success? So care partner might want again,

30 an hour to work. I'm like, well, hey, I charge like $32 an hour. So that $2 spread is not really setting me up for success in order for me to keep this boat moving forward long term. So will you take this pay? And that's where I always try to be in the driver's seat or kind of the buyer at all times. Right. So I've never told really a care partner, no, per se, or a client. No, I say, here's what we can do. And they make

that choice because I try to get their buy-in from their side. So whether that's negotiating pay or whether that's negotiating our rates or negotiating a level of care or a type of service or a task, I say here's what we can do.

Will you let us do that or will that work for you? And you really try to make it in a yes or no question and you work from there. But that's where, as I kind of share with you, when you work the core values and it fails for me, I'm not allowed to be upset. And I would say that's probably one of my superpowers from that end is I call it dog brain. Like you could yell at me, I could have a massive failure, but I get over it pretty quickly.

Miriam Allred (54:33.089)
failure, but I get over it pretty quickly. A lot of really great points, Alex. I've really enjoyed learning and listening to you, and I think everyone will as well. Just a couple last questions here. What's on the horizon for you this year? You've learned a lot and grown and have had these different growth periods as a business. What are you looking forward to and gearing up for this year in 2025?

Alex Chamberlain (54:55.278)
Man, 2025 has been fun, so.

We've kind of, I would say like jumping into some virtual assistance has been a new way to kind of look at the organization, look at where team members are doing certain tasks on the value chain there. So that's been really fun. So we're leaning more into that. I've also obviously jumping into the AI chat, GBT, it's been extremely helpful for us with maybe drafting some care plans on our care management side and especially handling case coverage, leaning more into AI. I just got

taught yesterday on how to make a custom GPT. So I'm going to be playing with some of that because.

Small stuff, right? Like I can upload my employee handbook or my favorite thing is our Akka regs. So I could upload that into its own GPT. And now every person on the team is not coming to me and saying, Hey Alex, can we do this with so-and-so's meds? I'm like, just type it into chat GPT and it's going to run it through the Akka regs and it's going to answer your question. So I think we're going to go through a little bit of a business.

I don't know, evolution here kind of for 2025 of using these new technology tools to make ourselves a little more efficient and hopefully more effective and more productive. So I'm kind of leaning into that right now.

Miriam Allred (56:13.377)
And last question here, as we close out, this is a platform for you to talk to a lot of home care owners and operators that listen to this podcast. Given all of your experience, I don't know how in tune you are maybe with your local market and kind of home care businesses in your market, but what's something you want home care owners and operators to do better at? If you could say anything to all these other owners and operators listening, what do you think you all as CEOs and executives can do better or be better at?

Alex Chamberlain (56:44.396)
I mean, I can take that question many different ways. Like one thing I will share that I love about the home care industry is just how open really other owners are.

We do have kind of a unique business with a unique workforce, unique client challenges, you know, because you could break down our clients into many different numbers, right? Like sometimes the adult child's really the client, even though the one we serve is the parent, right? Our caregivers are definitely clients, right? We have to provide them with service, support, and things of that nature. And I will say, like, I love the home care industry because most folks are extremely open and whether that's, again, extreme

stuff, hey Alex, here's how I overcame that challenge or here's what my PNL looks like and I'll show them mine, they'll show me yours and we could really look at here's what I'm doing wrong. Like Home Care Pulse obviously has their great study every single year and then we all get to kind of use that and brainstorm on best practices. So I don't know if there's anything that maybe could be better per se, at least maybe on the local level because at the national level when you attend conferences and so forth

everybody's so open and forthcoming. And that's kind of what I love about the business too. Like I'm in a group chat with some other home care owners and it's full of humor, cries, WTF moments. And we've turned into friends, so it's cool.

Miriam Allred (58:09.383)
Yeah, that's one of the things I think that has drawn me here and keeps me here is I love that everyone is so open and honest and willing to share and that's how we learn and grow and improve. This home care industry is a little bit maybe abstract. We were talking earlier about just the personalization, the customization, where we fit in the continuum. Maybe we're a little bit newer and younger in this evolutionary stage, but

That's the thing that I love about home care as well is just being open and honest and sharing. Like you just said, let's cross compare P &Ls because we can do that because we're learning and growing together. Alex, this has been so awesome. Thank you for joining me in the lab. Thank you for sharing so open and honest today, your core values, how you structure and think about care plans, how you as a CEO are putting yourself in the shoes of these care partners. Everything that you've shared today has been so spot on. So thank you.

Alex Chamberlain (59:00.939)
of course, you're welcome. I loved it. I had a blast. So thank you for having me.

Miriam Allred (59:04.317)
Your first podcast, you really delivered. I feel great about what we talked about today. So thank you again for being here and taking time out of your busy schedule. And I hope everyone enjoys this conversation.

Alex Chamberlain (59:13.934)
Cool, thank you.