Miriam Allred (00:00)
Welcome back to the Home Care Strategy Lab. I'm your host Miriam Allred. It's great to be back with all of you again this week. Today in the lab, I'm joined by Louis Frank, the CRO at Activated Insights. Louis, welcome to the show.

Louie Frank (00:14)
Awesome. Thanks for having me, Miriam.

Miriam Allred (00:16)
Let's start with a personal introduction. Some people may know you. You've been on webinars, you've been at events, conferences and things, but you might be a new face or voice to some of our listeners. So ⁓ introduce yourself, tell everyone a little bit about your personal and professional background.

Louie Frank (00:31)
Sure, yes. So like Maryam said, Louis Frank, Chief Revenue Officer at Activated Insights. Many of you might be more familiar with Home Care Pulse. We rebranded about a year and a half ago or so underneath the brand name of Activated Insights. I've been here two years. based out of a little bit north of St. Paul, Minnesota. And just really enjoyed my first two years being in the home care space. Previously, I was in revenue cycle management ⁓ serving

also post-acute providers, but generally on like the home health hospice side of things. And then most recently I was working for payments for nonprofits, so churches and schools, and really have enjoyed my time coming back into the healthcare space. And then personally, like I said, I live in Minnesota. I have two kids that are very active in sports. ⁓ I coach them in basketball, and that's where we spend most of our

nights and weekends doing and a real passion of mine of spending time with the kids, but a lot of time with sports.

Miriam Allred (01:34)
Awesome. Awesome. Well, thanks for sharing all of that. I think most people know that I was at home care pulse, previously. That's actually where I got my start in home care. but it's been several years since I've been there. So we didn't actually overlap, but, ⁓ excited to learn from you and have you on home care pulse and activated insights have gone through a lot of changes. Like you said, not just the rebrand alone, but have, brought on a lot of companies and products and services. And so, you recently shared a couple of statistics with me from this year's benchmark.

Louie Frank (01:40)
Absolutely.

Miriam Allred (02:02)
marking report. And a couple of things that stood out to me were around ⁓ turnover. You know, that's one of the things that we talk a lot about. It's just like employee churn, but more importantly than that, just some of the hiring funnel problems or issues and data points that we have observed this past year. And so that's what I want to dive into today is specifically like the mid funnel. we talk a lot about

Louie Frank (02:10)
Mm-hmm.

Miriam Allred (02:29)
just the hiring funnel in general, and there's kind of top funnel, mid funnel, bottom of funnel. And you've identified some of the statistics that I think are interesting in that mid funnel. So that's where I want to like dissect today is what you all are seeing in that mid funnel. And hopefully you can share, yeah, some data points, some KPIs that people may or may not be thinking about. And then also, what agencies are doing well and where there's room for improvement for these agencies when it comes to that mid funnel. So.

Before we get into that, I think a lot of people are familiar with Activated Insights, but just share a little bit about kind of your take on Activated Insights vantage point when it comes to just like workforce in general and workforce analytics specifically.

Louie Frank (03:10)
Yeah, thanks, Miriam. And also the alumni of Home Care Pulse I know you were involved in benchmark report too. So great to have somebody with your type of expertise that's familiar with what we're talking about, the depth of what you're talking about too. in terms of our view of workforce ⁓ analytics, obviously the workforce being such a huge component of what these agencies are trying to deliver as it relates to better quality of care, but also ⁓ just the sheer volume.

of our aging demographic and the volume that's coming into them of having enough workforce to be able to those needs. So our point of view on that is really trying to ⁓ recruit, train, and retain that workforce in the most effective and efficient way possible with allowing you to get insights along the way, try to make your process better not only for yourself internally, but also for those applicants and really create a real engaged workforce that feels motivated

about the work they're doing and connected to the mission that your agency is doing in the community.

Miriam Allred (04:14)
so today we're going to focus primarily on recruit. Obviously those three things that you all tackle go hand in hand. They all work together, but I want to focus on this recruit aspect of your point of view. Let's share the data points that you shared with me around where turnover was this past year.

Can you go ahead and share what those were and why those are interesting?

Louie Frank (04:38)
So in 2024, we saw a 75 % turnover rate, which is actually positive compared to the prior year, And

Some of the things that we're attributing to that based on what we're finding from benchmark report that the respondents are attributing those to are referral programs, ⁓ stronger employee alignment with the mission, which we see as a really positive thing. We know that referral programs are such a big driver of bringing in

Team members are gonna stay longer once they have kind of a trusted friend, if you will, inside the agency. And then the agency's doing a better job of sharing what their mission is, right? And be able to have that alignment with the team from top to bottom is gonna have a much better impact. So I think that's a real positive sign of how agencies are taking some of this data and translating that into stronger staff retention.

Miriam Allred (05:34)
That's super interesting to make sure I understand that is agency reported. Those are things that they have reported as improvements that they've made. Okay. Yeah, I think that's interesting. we've monitored turnover closely through activated insights, home care pulse the last 15 years, and it's just so interesting. Oftentimes it's kind of marginal changes year over year, but

Louie Frank (05:41)
Right. Yes. Yep.

Miriam Allred (05:56)
⁓ A drop in turnover is always a good thing. You know, we'll take that win wherever we can get it. So, so down from about 79 % to 75%. So again, a marginal, marginal drop, but still means something. And so you were just saying that agencies have reported, recognition programs, as being maybe the top reason. And also that's interesting around like mission and culture alignment. what are your thoughts on that? You think agencies are just.

focusing more on culture and on mission and vision and being able to communicate that to applicants.

Louie Frank (06:27)
Yeah, well, just a quick clarification. Referral programs is what they had shared with us. like employee referral programs of getting, you know, their staff to refer other other team members. Hopefully recognition is a part of that. That didn't show up in terms of specific recognition. But in terms of the mission side of things, something that we've been trying to be a little bit more dogmatic about, whether it's in webinars or podcasts like this, is you guys have an incredible story to tell, right? In terms of what you guys are doing in the community and be able to

⁓ help an older demographic and the impact that it's having on those lives. Right. I've seen some franchises just do an incredible job of telling that story through video, right? Of what that person means coming in to their home every week or whatever that cadence is. And just sort of what might be viewed as kind of minimal effort has such a big impact on them, right? It's changing their garbage is changing their laundry, whatever it might be of what a relief it is to them or an impact it makes to their day-to-day life.

and be able to tell that story to other people, whether it's future job applicants that you're looking for or even other clients, right? In terms of the impact that you're having in the community and just what a benefit that is. So be able to feel confident about it. You have a great story to tell and then share it, right? Be able to tell that story, I think is a great thing.

Miriam Allred (07:41)
my add to that is in this increasingly AI world, think telling that story, using real photos, videos of your caregivers, of your clients out in the home, out in the community will become increasingly important and a differentiator as people turn to AI for video and photo. I've spoken publicly about, staying away from, from stock photos and stock images and stock video. Like, yes, those have a time and a place, but

lean into your real people, your real caregivers, your real office staff, your real clients. like you're saying, broadcast your culture and your mission and your vision through testimonials and videos and things. And so I think that's going to become even more important in this world of AI as well.

Louie Frank (08:24)
I'd also share piggybacking off of that is, you we have a service where you're asking for feedback, whether it's employees or from your clients, your customers, whether you're using a third party service or you're just getting that from SurveyMonkey or emails, whatever you might be, to be able to share that not only with the employees that maybe had got a positive review, so individually one-on-one, but more broadly as well, sharing that on your website, on reviews. You know that people are looking, web searching, looking for

those reviews, share those, right? And again, being confident in the story that you have to tell and that the people that are interacting with your service that are really enjoying it.

Miriam Allred (09:00)
Yeah, two things on that is collecting that first and foremost. Those that aren't collecting that, that's the first place to start is make sure you're collecting that consistently so that also it doesn't dry up. You sometimes you think...

Louie Frank (09:03)
Sure. Right.

Miriam Allred (09:11)
You have like an influx of reviews of feedback and it lasts for a few months or six months. And then you're like, great, we need to like go out and collect it. So I think just getting into a consistent basis of collecting that. And then to bring us back to recruitment, using all of that in your recruitment effort, like Google reviews, AI is coming on the scene and affecting like Google search and Google reviews and all of that. But for now still Google reviews are extremely important. Your online presence is extremely important for these candidates. so making sure you have a good presence.

and you're responding to those reviews and people are satisfied like goes such a long way. Let's talk about applicants, about this kind of like mid funnel again.

Louie Frank (09:52)
Mm-hmm.

Miriam Allred (09:53)
We're talking about like reviews and all that good stuff, which I actually think is kind of like top of funnel is making sure just your presence online, that brand awareness, those photos, those videos, assuming all of that is set in stone. I want to actually focus on this mid funnel because this is where we see a lot of drop off. Like this mid funnel is where they're applying, they're going through that screening, that first contact,

those touch points to the interviews, background check, even reference checks. This mid funnel is where we see drop-off and where is maybe slipping. My question to you is there are a lot of applicants. I'm hearing from home care agencies that they're getting a lot of applicants, ⁓ but fewer are being hired. Is that what you all are hearing and what's your take on?

There's still enough applicants, but it's actually converting them and getting them to show up and getting them to the first shift. That's the issue. Do you feel the same?

Louie Frank (10:47)
Yeah, that's interesting you say that because the sentiment is pretty similar in terms of getting that top of funnel, those total number of applicants coming in, not seeing a lot of change there in terms of a dip. Some of that is probably more macro trends too. You could probably attribute some of that too. Hopefully it's attributed to doing more brand awareness about your agency and having more people interested in applying for the role.

But we're generally seeing about a kind of national average applicant to interview rate about 20 to 22%. We have a software that tracks that, that helps you automate a lot of that. And we're seeing about 30 to 35 % from applicant to interview. So we haven't seen like a big dip there, but you can see like a, you know, from a national average to what some of the services or some automation can really help you with, can create some sizable jumps for you.

to be able to help with that. I know we'll talk a little bit about that in terms of what are some of those best practices, whether you're using a third party service or not. yeah, definitely seeing a lot of those applicants come through those traditional sites, like Indeed, your website are generally the largest drivers that we're seeing.

Miriam Allred (11:56)
let's talk about the bottlenecks, the issues that agencies are seeing in that mid funnel because again, it's a volume game, but then it becomes very much like operational and tactical. Once they hit that apply button on indeed like.

What are the chain of events? What is the sequence after that? What are, what are agencies missing? What are they doing wrong? Where is some of like some of the issues that you've identified?

Louie Frank (12:24)
Sure, yeah, and I wouldn't say they're doing something wrong. There's opportunities for improvement and a couple of things that I'll share is first be your own applicant, right? What is the process like? So if you're promoting them on Indeed, go through that process yourself as if you're a job applicant. I guarantee that you'll find like, I didn't realize that or that's not the type of experience that I want. So that'd be my first tip. Second one would be if you're not doing sort of pre-screening questions as a part of that,

Because a lot of people will just you know click to apply in mass and probably doing so with multiple jobs at once providing that next level of questions that you're asking do you have a driver's license for example How close do you live to your office radius those types of questions will allow you to sort through better? Candidates versus just kind of the people that are that are doing that in mass So those the kind of those those first two tips as you're just kind of sorting that top of the funnel

But really once they get in and it's a qualified candidate, what we say is the 24 minutes is the new 24 hours. And what we mean by that is you have to engage with them early. Reason being is that a lot of people apply for roles in the evenings or on the weekends, generally when either your HR person or you as the owner, if you're that kind of that frontline qualification recruiter, aren't working. But a lot of those big box retailers that we see the highest

candidate competition for do have automation set up in place or have a lot more recruiting staff available that might be working some of those off hours when they know people are applying and they're engaging with them early. So that would be kind of the tip number three is how can you speed up your level of engagement with your applicants? Just anecdotally a story, Miriam, I was talking to somebody about our recruit software. was like, tell me a little bit about your process today. He's like, well,

Half of my time is spent recruiting, the other half of my time is doing business analytics. I go, okay, tell me about the makeup of your day. Well, I come in in the morning and I spend half my day, the first half of my day doing business analytics, and then the afternoon I do recruiting. I go, all right, so if someone replies that night before, you're not gonna touch them until the afternoon. He goes, yep, that's right. So like, well, you need to flip that, right? And so many people in agencies are wearing multiple hats, right? How are you prioritizing recruiting if that's ⁓ priority for you in terms of getting more frontline workers?

How are you making sure that that's a priority within your office if you have somebody kind of split duties?

Miriam Allred (14:48)
Yeah, that's a really good point that you make. think agencies are thinking of care support as a 24 seven role. There are caregivers out in the field in these homes 24 seven, and we need to support them in real time 24 seven, but it's a little bit of a paradigm shift to recruiting is also a 24 seven function because like you just mentioned, applicants are applying in the evenings and on weekends and 24 minutes is the new 24 hours. If you aren't getting back to them for

24 hours, 48 hours over a weekend, you've lost your chances. They're applying to seven to 10 other agencies and 10 other companies outside of home care that are all responding instantaneously, if not within minutes, you don't stand a chance. And I think that's a key insight here is you don't stand a chance if you're not getting back to them in literally minutes.

Louie Frank (15:24)
Mm-hmm.

That's right. Yeah, we're seeing the qualified frontline ⁓ workers ⁓ generally are getting hired in three days or less, whether that's at an agency or somewhere else. Right. So there's people that said, yes, ⁓ I want to apply for your role. And I meet those qualification standards are generally, you know, hired somewhere within, within three days.

Miriam Allred (16:01)
Let's talk about communication as a key part of this. What are applicants expecting today when it comes to communication? Are they most receptive to text, email, in platform messaging if they're on Indeed or ZipRecruiter, like on one of these? What is their preferred method of communication and or is it like a multi-pronged approach that leads to the best results?

Louie Frank (16:25)
Yeah, would say a best practice would be multi-pronged, but the most recent stat that I saw is that text message get read in 15 minutes or less, right? So those are always getting read compared to emails, when people actually check those specifically on a personal inbox. So we find text gets the most engagement in terms of response. And the expectation of that is that it doesn't feel spammy, right? In terms of,

how you're engaging with them, something that you can do, utilizing their name, who you are, identifying yourself, why you're texting them, and then really conveying your overall excitement about their application, right, of like why they reached out to you and your excitement to engage with

Miriam Allred (17:08)
And texting is a tricky game. think everyone's trying to crack the code on this on like what is the best practice for texting consumers. And I think of caregivers like as consumers, the applicants are kind of like your consumer in this instance. Because we all have, put our phone number in to receive updates from any number of companies. But, when they send you reminders to like cart checkout or discounts

There's like, it's this weird thing to interact with a brand via text. And I think of these applicants, it's like, okay, you are now in their messages. What is personal? What is professional? How many touch points are enough, but not annoying or invasive? what's your take on the sweet spot of texting these applicants? Like is more, is more, is more better or is they're a balance, like quantity over quality. What's your take on?

Louie Frank (17:45)
Yeah.

Miriam Allred (17:59)
just the volume of texting these applicants.

Louie Frank (18:02)
it's a great point, because I can feel that from utilizing text to engage with people that aren't friends or family members. And it is a personal thing that you're, quote unquote, in their phone, if you will. And how do you do so in a way that is professional, but also a way that is trying to create that type of engagement that you're looking for. But I think you also have to react to how they're engaging, right? So it's not just like, did you get my last text question mark or that type of thing of,

trying to get them to engage because you want that type of engagement, how are they engaging back with you? So kind of to your point on like the best practices is ⁓ engaging with text as soon as they apply again, 24 minutes, 24 hours of a, received your application, very excited to review it, wanted to introduce myself with what agency you are and what they can expect in terms of that next communication, right? Whether it's...

via text, whether you're going to reach out via a phone call or you'll send some information via email, being transparent about what's happening next versus them kind of waiting or they're not going to engage with you because they think that you're going to engage with them next, right? Just being really clear about that from a communication standpoint is going to be able to help you create more engagement of getting people to book a scheduled meeting with you or just a response back.

Miriam Allred (19:20)
That's really a good point is in that first text message, setting expectations for what they can expect with communication. Therefore, like this is the first text. Now you can expect a email with a booking link, or you can expect a text with a booking link, like just being very transparent upfront and including in that first contact. What, what do you know about response rates to that initial communication? Any details or data on just

Response rates to that first text because then my next question is at what point do you send another? Communication if you haven't heard back from that first contact

Louie Frank (20:00)
Yeah, I don't have ⁓ specific response rates in terms of from initial text. But again, we're taking a look at applicant to scheduled interviews. And if we're seeing that potentially slip again, kind of being in that 35 % range, we would then look at how many texts are we doing? What the content of that first message actually is? Are we asking for engagement or is it a little bit

So I don't have those exactly. We really are monitoring those applicants scheduled interviews as I mentioned.

Miriam Allred (20:33)
What should the agency do if they haven't heard back? Like how long should they wait before they reach out again?

Louie Frank (20:39)
I would say probably two to three, know, there were, ⁓ I would recommend and then transition to email, right? And then you can even throw a phone call in there as well. So, right, whether you're leaving a voicemail, ⁓ or you're, you're giving them a call to try to create that engagement. wanted to reference the text message I sent you as well as the email, ⁓ doesn't hurt the more, channels that you're trying to communicate them with email.

phone directly as well as text, especially early on if they had applied, right? Then I'd probably pull that back, within 48 hours if you're not getting a response in terms of engagement, whether it's through email, phone, phone or text, but really kind of being on top of it, like I said, the 24 minutes in the first, or 24 minutes is the new 24 hours, looking at it through that first 48 hour lens if you're not getting a response.

Miriam Allred (21:28)
Okay. And just a curiosity question. I don't know all the nuances of your recruit platform, but can you all see text read receipts and or email open rates? So all of this communication goes out, even if they don't respond, are you able to see just engagement from like a read or an open perspective?

Louie Frank (21:47)
Yeah, not from a red perspective, but yeah, definitely from an engaged perspective, like if they respond back, right? Kind of the percentage on responses and being able to test, those messages of, what's getting more responses or not. So you definitely get those response rates and then can engage with it directly that way versus actually having to do it on your own personal device.

Miriam Allred (22:09)
And we're focusing heavily on like applicant to kind of that first interview, I guess, is the context that I'm thinking about. Let's talk about that interview, that first interview, getting them on the phone or in person or on a Zoom meeting. What's working well for agencies there when it comes to getting that first interview scheduled, conducting that interview, and then we'll talk about next steps after the interview process.

Louie Frank (22:32)
Yeah, we see the best chance to have people show up to an interview is give them options and those options are either being in person or doing a zoom virtual meeting, right? So ⁓ people that might not be technically proficient or might feel more comfortable meeting you in person of you know, who is this company that I'm applying with and then ⁓ vice versa, right? People that maybe are busy or can't meet or can't come in person, give them the option to be able to

attend a virtual session. So that's where we see as a, as a best practice to do so. And generally we see the best practices kind of two steps. One, do the virtual second come in office, right? I get to know you, you get to know me. So like there's mutual interest there. We'd love to have you come into the office, meet some of the office staff and then bring in your paperwork so that you can then ultimately get them to, confirm and get them hired.

when they do come to the office. So kind of those two steps we see as the greatest likelihood for success to a hire.

Miriam Allred (23:34)
It's interesting to hear you say that. think that's one of the things that surprised me is how many agencies are still doing virtual interviews. That was very much ⁓ out of necessity during the pandemic, but people built a process for virtual interviews that seemed to work really well and candidates still prefer that. I like this best practice that you just cited, which was virtual first, because that's just a good kind of

Louie Frank (23:52)
Mm-hmm.

Miriam Allred (24:01)
initial contact, see if they're committed, kind of suss them out virtually. But then the next step is, okay, now come to the office, let's have an in-person meeting and then we can talk schedule and onboarding and all of that. So I think that's, again, just a surprise to me how many virtual interviews are still taking place, but I like this best practice of virtual first and then in-person second.

Louie Frank (24:04)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and using that office visit as a chance to close, right? I talked to some agencies where they're trying to close the applicant on the virtual and they might not be ready for that. Some might be, but ⁓ vast majority, right, they're interviewing you just like you're interviewing them, right? Help me understand a little bit more about you and then give them a little bit more comfort about who you are, again, your mission, vision, values, your clients, what a day-to-day looks like, and then talk to them about onboarding and then welcome them to the office to, again, meet.

team anything else that you want to do from a get to know you interview perspective, anybody else that you want to be a part of the interview process, and then team them up to say, hey, if there's still mutual interest there, here's what we would like you to come to the office with, a copy of your driver's license, any sort of documentation that you require or need to have them in fact ready so you can get them signed up.

Miriam Allred (25:13)
I'm just recalling an agency that I talked to recently that also does this virtual like first interview and they said it's also makes it slightly easier to walk away from a from an applicant and that they mutually identify in that virtual interview that they're not a good fit and it's it's a little bit easier to walk away it's less of a formal commitment less of a personal commitment if it's just virtual where again mutually they they identify

Louie Frank (25:26)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Miriam Allred (25:42)
some factor in that applicant that again, is just like not a mutual fit. And so being able to, again, like low commitment, both walk away and not have to go to the in-person process if you can kind of sus some of that out in the virtual interview.

Louie Frank (25:57)
Yeah, it's a great call. It can be a lot less awkward than having to do that in person for sure.

Miriam Allred (26:03)
and just they didn't have to drive to the office and break that off in person. It's just an easier way. ⁓ What about drop-off between virtual to in-person interview? is there a lot of drop-off between those two interviews or once they're committed to the virtual, show-up rates are pretty good for the in-person?

Louie Frank (26:24)
I mean the biggest opportunity that we see to increase if you have that two step process virtual to in person or really, guess really any part of that process is giving the candidate a chance to reschedule and doing so in a way that is if you use like a Calendly if you're familiar with that, but there's a lot of those online calendars that you could use that allow people to say, hey, I can't make it but you know Thursday at 10 I could instead.

because generally people will just either not show up or not communicate about it versus giving them that option to do so. So I'd say that would be the best practice was ⁓ remind them about the appointment and then also give them the opportunity to say, hey, if you can't make it, here's how you can reschedule and be able to do so, you know, with like a Calendly, like I said, or some other sort of calendar automation if you have the ability to do that. But Calendly is free to a certain number of accounts. So you could use that free option.

Miriam Allred (27:16)
Like we all know scheduling is such a key part of business and of these caregivers' lives and giving them the option to reschedule. I think it's also a good indicator for what type of hire they will be. If they're communicative, if they're responsive, if they are...

proactive and rescheduling. Like I think that's also a good indicator for the type of employee that they're going to be. so giving them the tools to be self-sufficient, like rescheduling again is a good indicator for how they will handle scheduling conflicts likely down the road when they're employed by you.

Louie Frank (27:33)
For sure.

Yeah, that's great to show their engagement interest level if they are actively rescheduling with you. Tells you a lot.

Miriam Allred (27:53)
typically at some point in this kind of mid funnel agencies will do some sort of background check, maybe even some sort of reference checks. What's your take on automating those things and where do they fit in this process? Like best practice on doing those things and where do they fit in the process and being able to automate some of that as well.

Louie Frank (28:15)
I would say, kind of with the demand for ⁓ frontline care workers, I would do that as kind of an asterisk of, we're going to take care of all this paperwork, get you agreed. Yes. And then pending background check. And if you're doing a reference check, right. So don't wait for that to happen. Cause again, they're probably applying for other roles. They might not have those types of other requirements for other organizations that they might be looking for. And so you'd want to

secure them as a candidate, get them kind of training and onboarding, pending those backgrounds and reference checks, which hopefully are pretty quick. But I want to make it a dependency on, kind of getting them completed through the application process.

Miriam Allred (28:55)
Okay. This begs the question around like metrics. ⁓ There are a lot of touch points in the hiring funnel. Additionally, in this mid funnel, should agencies be tracking every single touch point and have kind of a KPI attached to every single touch point? Or is that way too robust? I guess, are you seeing businesses that track every single thing in the hiring funnel or?

Is there kind of a sweet spot where there's maybe seven to eight metrics that they should be tracking? What are you seeing working well for agencies and is there room for more metrics or should we be eliminating some metrics?

Louie Frank (29:31)
Sure. mean, I generally feedback that I give is being a sales background is the things that I look for in terms of what's driving people interest into our business is something that you can take very similar to the application side of things. What I mean by that is having a good understanding of where applicants coming from, right? Is it from referrals? Is it from my own team? Is it from Indeed or a third party job site? Is it from my website?

There you know where to invest, right? Where should I be spending my time to be able to maximize the amount of inbound applicants that are coming to me? One of the things that is also great, if you're a part of the interview process is, hey, how did you hear about us? Where did you hear about us, right? What have you heard about us? Also kind of give you some of those indicators of where you could be spending your time of looking for that. So I'd be making sure you know where they come from.

Then I would be looking at, all right, how many of those applicants are qualified? So again, a kind of a best practice of ⁓ having sort of the qualification questionnaire so that you can vet ⁓ candidates so that, again, you're eliminating some of the mass apply type of candidates that might be applying for your role that might not be the right fit. So then looking at, all right, how many of these applicants are actually turned into ones that I want to interview? How many of those people that I want to interview are actually scheduling interviews?

And then depending on how many steps you have right in your interview process, again, we're recommending kind of a best to have those to the virtual and then in person ⁓ if possible. ⁓ And then how many of those people that are scheduled interviews are moving to hires, right? So kind of watching them kind of move down the funnel and then retention being a huge part of that. then I would measure, all right, how many of these people that came from, let's say indeed are staying versus the ones that are coming from referrals we generally see stay longer.

Right? So how are my, the people that I am hiring that I'm putting a lot of energy to, how many of them are actually staying on team and the people that we want to have stay here. So again, you can focus your energies back up the funnel of looking at those types of applicants, where they're coming from. And that's where we're going to maximize and spend my time.

Miriam Allred (31:39)
Yeah, that was great. think that is like manageable. I guess my mind goes to there's so many touch points. You could technically be tracking every single thing that might not be sustainable for a lot of reasons. ⁓ But I like the way that you just simplified and broke it down to like here's kind of like, I think it was maybe like six or seven kind of key areas to focus because the reason why I think it is important to do this is because

there is drop off at each of these points in time. And so that is just an indicator internally to look at that step in the funnel and how you can optimize that. Like the one that actually stands out to me that you just shared was that qualification step. Because again, there's a lot of applicants coming in. You need to be really good at qualifying. That can be a bottleneck in that agencies can waste a lot of time.

Louie Frank (32:20)
Mm-hmm.

Miriam Allred (32:31)
sifting through applicants that are unqualified that in and of itself Especially at volume, if you're talking like a hundred applicants a week That can waste a recruiter or someone in the office's time if they are sifting their candidates So being really good at qualifying and again if there's drop-off there going back and looking at your qualification process What questions are we asking? What questions are we not asking? What are we very specifically our agency looking for?

to be able to find qualified applicants to then push them through the funnel. Again, I just think it's important to track this very closely, but in a simplified way like you identified so that you can see where the drop-off is so that you can refine your process.

Louie Frank (33:11)
Yeah, I think that's spot on. One of the things that I'll put in there too, that I've recommended as a best practice, that I found a lot of success for myself personally outside of the KPIs is spending the time thinking about who are the right applicants. And how I like to frame that is think about the employees that you've had the most success with or that you would say, Hey, these people really embody our culture and what we want to have out in our clients' homes.

Think of commonalities that those people have and how do you infuse that in your interview questions with the people that are coming on board? So an example that I like to use, I'm always looking for curiosity, whether it's a sales role, marketing role, whatever, something that is curious. The two questions I like to ask, what's the most recent book you read and what's the most recent thing you learned, right? That gives me insights in terms of, these people are really curious. They're curious about things that are outside of, kind of their day-to-day work world, but just kind of in general.

There's probably questions like that that you can infuse when you're vetting candidates that might have kind of passed all the check marks in terms of qualification, but are they meeting who you want as a part of your team? And that's who ultimately can be on the field representing you with your logo where out in those people's houses is an important consideration too, that I think can help you find those right applicants as well.

Miriam Allred (34:27)
Fantastic. That was really well said because again, there's all of these just like quantitative things. Do they have a car? Can they meet these hours? Some agencies are looking for years of experience. Like there's all those things, like you said, like the checkbox list, and those are easy to screen. But there's then these like these qualitative things, know, compassion, heart. emotional and like interpersonal things that agencies want in their applicants.

Louie Frank (34:36)
Hmm.

Mm-mm.

Miriam Allred (34:54)
that are harder to convey in an application and even an interview. But I like what you're saying is come up with those questions, like push yourself and your team, ask your caregivers, ask your current staff, what are some of those questions that can help them communicate that in an application, in a screening process to then identify those people faster? Like I really like even, you you talking about like a sales role, looking for curiosity, like that's a great example, two questions that are then kind of triggers to.

them personally, their personality, their attributes, their skill set. And there's a lot of that with caregivers as well as like, how do I get to know them and know the type of caregiver they're going to be in an applicant and in that screening process?

Louie Frank (35:37)
Yeah, one of the best questions I heard an agency ask that I asked him kind of what's your, what's your interview questions that you like. And ⁓ one that I heard that was really resonated with me is what has been your experience with home care with a loved one, right? What they're trying to tease out is what is your perception of home care caregivers, right? it's, negative or positive or, whatever it might be that they can start to tease some of that out.

and understand their why, right? I want to make it better because I didn't have a great experience or I had such a great experience, I want to be a part of that journey and what it meant to my loved one. I think it was a really impactful one to get kind of the empathy side of it and kind of the heart of that job applicant.

Miriam Allred (36:17)
This is bringing to mind just kind of a quick side note. ⁓ I've had the opportunity to judge the caregiver of the year submissions to the HCAOA and they had over 500 submissions. I've read a lot of notes from offices about caregivers over the last couple of weeks and so this is just top of mind. ⁓ One of the criteria that I personally use to judge these caregivers, obviously it's really hard to do because they're all going above and beyond. These submissions are the very best caregivers in this nation.

Louie Frank (36:25)
Mmm, nice.

you ⁓

Mm-hmm.

Miriam Allred (36:46)
⁓ something that I personally was looking at was stand out words, like keywords that are outside of the norm. When we think of caregivers, we think of compassionate, reliable, patient, dependable. There's kind of all these words that we use that are great. Don't get me wrong. We should continue to use those because they are all of those things. But when I was looking at these, these submissions, I was looking for stand out words that I don't often hear associated with caregivers. Like,

A couple of words that just come to mind like advocates, ⁓ innovation, leaders, altruism. There were these words that some submissions included that stood out to me. The reason I bring this up is for agencies to push themselves, to stand out from every other agency in their market is they're all using the same key words to describe caregivers. Again, those are good words and they're accurate.

using additional words that are more heartfelt, that are differentiated, that maybe come from your current employees or come from your current clients, pushing yourself to find those words that differentiate you in the applicant, in the interview, and in the hiring process.

Louie Frank (37:59)
And also, I didn't know you were involved in that, Miriam. I remember that HCAOA last year in Seattle, that winner, could, the immense pride that they had on their face was incredible to witness.

Miriam Allred (38:09)
when you think about the hiring, just communicating your value and your differentiators is really important. And we talked a little bit about the start. I want to circle back to that a little bit is just communicating and leveraging your culture throughout the hiring process. you talked about video and testimonials, any thoughts on additional ways to convey culture just throughout the hiring process that comes to mind?

Louie Frank (38:35)
Well, first impressions is a big one, right? In terms of how are you engaging with that applicant in terms of, being genuine, doing what, saying what you're going to do in terms of the interviews at this time and you show up. So I think those are important very first touch points, right? In terms of how they're perceiving you. The second one is going to be the online reputation, right? They're going to be looking for those types of reviews vetting you just like you're vetting them.

So that'd be another one to look for in terms of how are we conveying what our teammates are saying about the work they're doing, but then also the company itself and then what those clients say that that all matters in terms of conveying your culture, what other people ⁓ are saying about it. And then, I think it's a, if you get people in your office, I think that really shows ⁓ how you can convey that in terms of what people feel. What is it? 90 % of,

language is nonverbal. And so people could really pick up on a lot of that, right? To have an understanding of how comfortable they feel and what you're saying is actually true by being able to meet that in person. So what's that environment that you're creating in the office? Not only day to day, but also how is that going to be perceived by the applicant and what does that look like? I love that we have our best of home care awards and that people will display those proudly on the walls or on their windows and things like that. So if you have awards and recognition programs that you can

help to further that only will help kind of reiterate that third party validation that this is, you know, deemed a great place to work or whatever it might be.

Miriam Allred (40:07)
The other thing that comes to mind on my end is leveraging your employees that have been with you for a long time. It's one thing to get kind of a case study or testimonial from someone that's been with you for a year versus someone that's been with you for five years, seven years, 10 years. we need to lean into your longstanding employees more because there's a reason why they're still with your agency. This market's competitive. talked to, I've talked to caregivers that

Louie Frank (40:21)
So.

Miriam Allred (40:35)
have been with an agency for two or three years and then they're forgotten. They're just doing the workout in the field and they're not being recognized. There's less communication from the office. They're just expected to keep working forever. Those people leave because they get forgotten. So leaning into the people that have been with you for a long time and telling their story and hearing from them why they choose to stay.

Louie Frank (40:45)
Yeah.

I think that's a great point, Miriam, terms of just thinking like my reliability becomes a detriment. You know, I've been so consistent and reliable for a long time that, yeah, I feel like you're getting taken for granted. And how do you create that sustained employee engagement, not only for your new hires, but the people that continue to do great work.

Miriam Allred (41:16)
Yeah. And those people are oftentimes good at articulating why they stay. there's something that the office is doing well that warrants them staying. And so being really close and talking to those people to again, repurpose their comments, their testimonials as a, as a recruiting tool, because again, there's a reason why they, where they're choosing to stay and How do you understand that capitalize that? And then in turn use that in your recruiting process. ⁓

Just thinking about where recruitment is heading, Louie, it's been an interesting five years coming out of the pandemic, just home care in general, the workforce in general, recruiting in general. But I'm curious on maybe your personal take from your point of view, what you anticipate the next couple of years, are things going to...

continue as they are? Are there any innovations with AI that are coming on the scene that might change recruiting? What's your take on the next couple of years in home care recruiting?

Louie Frank (42:14)
I mean, it's going to be, very relevant from the standpoint of the, baby boomer generation. There's the stat that, about 10,000 Americans reach the age of 65 every day through the early 2030s. Right. That's now not all of them are going to be needing a home care, but at some point most likely that they will. Right. So it's going to, really increase the demand for those frontline care workers. So it's going to be really important, that you have a recruiting process that you feel.

really good to be able to backfill or hire new to be able to extend the reach of your agency out there in the community. So I think it's going to be, it's going to be huge. And I think what AI can't do is authenticity, right? How are you showing up authentically to potential teammates, employees, and then also to clients. So I know we've talked a lot about kind of those testimonials and the video. That's things that AI won't be able to authentically generate.

for you. So I think there's going to be huge enhancements as it relates to the ability to, you know, have monitoring in the home or be able to effectively track and do a route with your car to maximize time in car and driving and things like that. So I think there'll be just a ton of that. But in terms of showing up generally who you are is I think going to be your greatest advantage and being able to

use that to your advantage, whether it's with teammates or clients to extend that reach in the community.

Miriam Allred (43:39)
Yeah, I like what you're saying about AI with an authenticity. I think there's a place for technology to automate a lot of the low yield tasks in the recruitment process to then warrant your team spending more time on.

Louie Frank (43:50)
Mm-hmm.

Miriam Allred (43:54)
the authenticity on the personal connection, on the phone calls, on the outreach, like let technology fill in the gaps so that it can free up time for your team to do more of the personal outreach that goes a long way in the hiring process. and those are the agencies that are succeeding. They've kind of cracked the code on this. They've figured out

how to automate and streamline this process so that they can focus on the personalized recruitment and retention. I guess I see the agencies that have really locked this in and are doing well at this are the ones that are succeeding.

Louie Frank (44:28)
I mean, the take the artificial out of intelligence and replace that with real. What are you doing to be real? Right? What's this real intelligence that I can add a value that, artificial intelligence again, won't be able to do in terms of knowing your team members, knowing your clients and physically being available and showing up for them.

Miriam Allred (44:47)
One last question for you. Based off everything that we've shared today, if you were to give kind of one piece of advice for agencies to go out and implement something in their business today regarding kind of that mid funnel, what's the most important advice that you would give them?

Louie Frank (45:04)
I would say go through your application process yourself. And I think you'll find a lot of, opportunity and also what you'd expect from engagement, whether it's you want to, kind of secret shop yourself of let's say you apply at nine o'clock at night. When is the first response that you get, right? Is that what you would expect? Is that what you, you, would want? So I would be, going through your own application process. The other one I would look.

Two is if you're doing the recruiting or you have somebody or a team member doing recruiting, what can you do to help them automate a lot of that manual work, right? So much of that time is spending chasing down people to try to get them to engage. A lot of that can be automated for you nowadays, right? Whether third party service or just some things that you could ⁓ use existing tech stack that you might already have that can help automate and alleviate a lot of that manual work for your recruiting. That's going to just speed things up and.

ideally help your recruiter be able to be more effective. Those would be the two things I would share, Miriam.

Miriam Allred (46:03)
I like it. Great, great advice. Really good conversation. A lot of good talking points and advice and KPIs. I think we covered a lot of ground in this conversation. So thank you for coming prepared to share all of this today. What's the best place for people to get in contact with you personally and or to learn more about activated insights.

Louie Frank (46:23)
Yeah, you can always go to activatedinsights.com. ⁓ I welcome your engagement and feedback. can find me on LinkedIn. You can also shoot me an email. I'm just louie.frank @ activatedinsights.com and I welcome your feedback and your engagement.

Miriam Allred (46:38)
Awesome. Sounds great. Thanks for joining me in the lab, Louie. We'll look forward to more data and insights as they continue to roll out. Obviously the benchmarking report is annual, but you all are coming out with case studies and reports on an ongoing basis. So we'll keep an eye on all of the statistics and stay in touch.

Louie Frank (46:55)
Thanks for the opportunity, Miriam. I appreciate it.